#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue and I want to introduce you to my latest podcast. This is a co-production between my company YCastr and Seneca College in Toronto. Seneca College is a really great school. I know because over the past couple of years, I've been teaching some marketing and business and customer experience courses there. People come to study at Seneca from all over the world, which makes it a hotbed of innovative thinking. And a big part of that thinking is driven by our amazing faculty, many of whom are well like me, professionals, who are thriving in their own businesses, and teach at Seneca as a way to share their passion for what they do. But needless to say, I've been hugely inspired by the people I've met. And what happens when I get inspired? Well, apparently, I launch a podcast. So here we are. Welcome to the Seneca Proud podcast, where I get to introduce you to some of Seneca College's amazing faculty. So subscribe, download and join me as we meet some of the super inspiring folks who teach here at Seneca College in Toronto. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm glad you're here today.

And welcome back to the Seneca Proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue and I have such a great show for you today. If you're a visual artist, and you want to transition to creating art for gaming, and other digital media, or if you have a passion for digital storytelling, VR interactive media, and you want to transform that passion into a career, this is the show for you. Our guest today is Professor Sumit Bhatia. Sumit is the professor and program co-ordinator for the Game Art and Animation program as well as the Interactive Media Design program. And as if that doesn't keep him busy enough. Sumit is a business creative and digital strategist, whose work has focused on pioneering efforts in the fields of interactive digital media, and emerging technologies. Sumit holds an honours degree in economics and finance from the University of Toronto, and has a master's degree in digital media from Ryerson. He has worked with diverse organizations all the way from Fortune 500 companies and large academic institutions to complex startups. His current research is focused on the fields of data visualization, big data analytics, serious gaming, immersive environments, and VR. Sumit not only knows the art of media; he also knows the business and technology side of it. And a big part of our conversation in today's show is around making a successful career as a digital artist in those fields. We started our conversation by talking about the Interactive Media Design program. Here's today's guest, Professor Sumit Bhatia.

 

Sumit Bhatia 02:52

The Interactive Media Design program was launched about three years ago. And it was an evolution from a previous program called the Digital Media Arts program. The Digital Media Arts program was a really successful one in terms of the careers that it's launched, and the number of people from that program that have entered the industry and done some amazing things. Our focus with the Interactive Media Design program, when we were building it, was really about kind of rethinking what it means to be an interactive media professional. You'll probably agree when people drop terms like digital media and interactive media, the first thing that pops up is well, what the hell is that? And that's kind of how we felt when we were launching it is that there's a moving target. When we start thinking about interactive media professionals today, we're looking at, you know, digital strategists, we're looking at different forms of media. Now tying in with technology, and finding that there's a lot of crossovers, we're starting to hear about how web development and mobile development and graphic design are all kind of converging into a space. And so when students are going out there, they're expected to know a lot about a lot of different things. And that was kind of the idea of the Interactive Media Design program. Our focus was to build one that was grounded, and actually how I think of it as three pillars, which is we looked at creative and design. We looked at technology and development, and we looked at business and strategy. And you'll wonder why I'm using two words defining segments. And the idea is that when we think about creative and design, I think of creative as a way of fostering creative thinking, and design as being a way to articulate that thinking. And same goes with technology and development, development starts becoming more about code and programming, front end, back end and all sorts. But when I think about technology, it's the awareness around technology and its application, and it's how it's changing the world around us and impacting industries, and on business and strategy. I think a business more from an entrepreneurial perspective, and I think about strategy as a way of thinking and how to use your skill sets. To apply towards solving other people's problems,

 

Pat Perdue  05:02

So walk me through the genesis in the creation of the program, it must have evolved, and has it evolved even since it hass begun?

 

Sumit Bhatia  05:09

Absolutely. I think the tough part in the evolution of the program was recognizing that when students come into it, they have this uncertainty about what they want to do and how a program like this really benefits them. And we had to find a way to structure the program that made sense to a student who as a new interactive media professional wanted to build a career in it. And how would somebody who wants to be a designer think about strategy? Or how is somebody who really focuses on learning how to be a developer, think about design. And so, a lot of it was helping them understand that in order to be a better designer, you had to understand strategy. And in order to be a better strategist, you needed to understand technology. And that's, you know, that's tough. It's tough for us, as professionals in the industry to wrap our heads around it. And it's even tougher for students. And that is something that we continue to evolve. As we continue to shape the program, one of the fundamentals kind of, you know, baselines for the program were how do we create something that can keep evolving. And if we know anything about academia, that's one of the hardest. But the most important, especially in in this world of technology, and design. And that's been something that constantly shifts and changes. So, you know, parts of our program are about new and emerging technologies. And that leaves it open enough for us to start thinking about what is the latest current trend? What are the latest technologies, what is shifting, how they've evolved, and continue to build that into the fabric of the program. And I'd say in that sense, our program evolves probably every year.

 

Pat Perdue  06:43

Really interesting. If I'm a student, thinking about taking the program, wondering if the program is for me, what are some key questions that I want to ask myself in order to make a good decision?

 

Sumit Bhatia  06:54

You know, that's a great point. It's something I bring up with students all the time. We're part of an industry where we have the, I don't want to say, the luxury of it. But we have the ability to really turn our passion into a career in which means that in this space, I always ask students, are you able to immerse yourself in this space, when you come into the program, what we teach in the classroom is only half of what is required for you to actually be able to learn and grow in this space. Is that something that you do at home, you know, when I'm sitting in front of my computer, and reading and researching, it's not because I have an objective, it's because that's what I love to do, because it's fun. And that's something that I really try and get students to think about is don't think about this from the perspective of, hey, I want to be a web developer, I want to be a mobile designer, I want to, you know, go after one particular element. If that's something you've thought about, that's great. But recognizing that over the course of this program, over the two years, you really are going to shape your own thinking, and that the more you stay immersed in this space, the more you'll be able to understand how to apply the knowledge that exists with the knowledge that you're gaining.

 

Pat Perdue  08:00

Got it. And how often do students come into your program, with one set of expectations about how they're going to evolve, like, what they're going to pursue when they finish the program, and maybe those expectations have shifted simply because of what you've been able to expose them to?

 

Sumit Bhatia  08:15

I think the number one moving target and the shifting expectations happen around; I want to be this kind of person performing this type of role. And very quickly, our job becomes to create context for their learning. And paired with all the sorts of opportunities that are growing in this industry. You know, we're seeing the birth of some really new exciting things like when you know, you'll see the term UX designer dropped often. And for a lot of students when they think about a UX designer, they think about a very design-oriented role. And even being able to shift their thinking into how UX actually has a strong strategy in business for UX being defined as user experience.  So, it's getting them to start thinking about that design has, I'll actually use a different way to explain this. I often tell students that what's the difference between an artist and a designer? An artist has the luxury of expressing their own thoughts, their own motivations and their own kind of perspective, and shares with the world. Whereas design is about solving other people's problems. And then in a very creative and also very expressive way. 

 

Pat Perdue  09:22

Absolutely. Okay, awesome. And so, if I'm going to take your course, I'm, you know, I read the course description. I'm all juiced about taking it, it's going to be really good. I probably have certain expectations of what I'm going to experience. Any surprises that you can tell me about without giving away any secrets?

 

Sumit Bhatia  09:36

Yeah, I think the surprising part is they don't realize the number of things that they're going to learn and how diverse that spectrum looks like. It's very exciting to read about a program description and go, I'm gonna learn how to, you know, edit, sound and produce videos, and think about web development and think about design and look at VR and look at, animation and VFX. But in a student's head it's very hard to combine those into one area of focus. And so, I think the surprising part in all of this is how they suddenly realize that all of these skills come together, and that there are roles that expect you to have a little understanding of each one of them. And there's opportunities to craft your career around them.

 

Pat Perdue  10:17

That solves the question. Okay, now what? So, when they do finish the program, how do they answer that question?

 

Sumit Bhatia  10:25

That's probably the toughest question to answer, right. I struggle with that when people ask me what I do. I'm still trying to figure that out. And which is, I think the best part of my career is that I can keep evolving, as things evolve, and as industries evolve. But I'd say we put a lot of focus in our final semester around helping students start to develop some sort of trajectory that they want to move on. We have courses in career preparation, we do a specific course, I think we're one of the few programs that actually does a course on field placement, and helping students understand how to identify their areas of expertise versus their areas of passion, versus opportunities that exist in the space, and what is the emerging point for all three. And by the time they get through that course, I find a lot of students come away, just having a more grounded sense of their own professional selves, and start to think of themselves less as students and more as professionals entering the industry.

 

Pat Perdue  11:27

And what are some things that those students look forward to specifically taking on? I'm going to start with the Interactive Media Design program, but I absolutely do want to spend time on the Game Art and Animation program. Both sound really, really cool. So, starting with the Interactive Media Design program, what are some specific subject matter items that students would look forward to taking?

 

Sumit Bhatia  11:40

So, the first year is actually focused on developing their software skills; the Adobe Creative Suite with Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign. They start getting into audio design and production, looking at the fundamentals of web design. We have a course on interactive media business, which is helping them just develop awareness around technology, and all the different things that are happening within that space. So they can start building context. It's also a place where we start thinking about the impact of technology, on people, on society, on industry, so that they can start seeing that the knowledge that they're gaining has a place in every industry out there, and how to start thinking about it in those terms.

 

Pat Perdue  12:32

Very, very cool. And I'm going to ask you the same question for the Game Art and Animation program.

 

Sumit Bhatia  12:38

The Game Art and Animation program is a post grad certificate program, which changes things a little bit because we get students that are actually coming from diverse professions, with a deep interest in art. We have students that are coming from programs like Animation that understand, you know, how the animation world ties into the gaming world, but they really want to develop their skill set, particularly for that space. So, the Game Art and Animation program focuses primarily on Triple A gaming, and developing assets for the Triple A gaming world. So, think about environment, art, character art, props, assets. So, there's a deep storytelling piece built into everything that you develop. And you really have to have the ability to recognize how people are going to respond to and react to the assets that you're building. And what is the narrative they create in those reactions. So, it's a bit unique in that sense, but we're, I would say, we're probably one of the most successful and focused programs in the city with regards to that. We've had students who have gone on to win UbiNext, which is UbiSoft's creative competition, several years in a row. Our students are in every gaming studio out there today in Toronto and across Canada. And I'm very Proud of that program.

 

Pat Perdue  13:51

That's awesome. Parallel to an earlier question that I asked you, if I'm considering the program, what are some fundamental skill sets that you would want me to bring to the program if it was going to be for me for me? 

 

Sumit Bhatia  14:01

For Game Art and Animation specifically, is your fundamentals as an artist. So, everything from art fundamentals, life drawing, and understanding perspective. We get a lot of students that bring in previous experience in terms of modeling and 3D modeling, and 3D art. And those are baseline skills that we do require in the program. Of course, we take them through the motions of learning how to use software to build on those, but they do have to have a general sense of perspective and art fundamentals to be able to apply those skills using software.

 

Pat Perdue  14:35

Got it.  And what do you find is the biggest challenge, they'll bring in? Maybe they don't have the business sense of the gaming world, or maybe it's the storytelling component. What would you suggest is the biggest challenge that students typically face in the program?

 

Sumit Bhatia  14:48

I think from a storytelling perspective, the biggest challenge is the difference between you know, I'll use an example you're developing a prop for a particular environment. Let's say it's an old a clay pot that you're developing. What's the difference between a clay pot that just looks like it's sitting there and has never been used versus something that looks like it's from 300 years old has probably seen 150 hands go by it, has points of wear and tear has chips on it. The story changes the minute you experience that. And I think what we don't realize is that all of these storytelling elements actually happen at a very subconscious level. You're playing a game; you're traversing through an environment. And you notice that just for a second, and that second is enough for you to notice the chip and make up a narrative in your head. And so, the students have to start thinking and planning for that. And so that is something that students don't expect. And yet, that is something that takes a lot of effort to create and get them to start thinking about,

 

Pat Perdue  15:48

I can imagine the inconsistency of it would really probably jump out at you. It's like not having enough salt in cooking, for example. It's almost like, you know, you have to take that clay pots experience and deconstruct it, and tell your own narrative about that clay pot, and then render that narrative and how it looks.

 

Sumit Bhatia  16:05

Absolutely. The power of observation and research takes you a long way. I think artists have a natural tendency to solve a problem with their art, which is, you give them a problem and they want to open up their notebooks or drawing books or tools and software and start doing it. Whereas the amount of time that it takes to think and plan some of these things, to go out and research, to just go into the world and observe and see how people react to these different things. We really try and build those skills of observation and the power of research into our students thinking,

 

Pat Perdue  16:35

Game art and animation, it's an ON FIRE industry, you know, it's bigger than the Hollywood movie industry. What do you find is over the horizon for this, what's what are the big changes that are coming down the pike?

 

Sumit Bhatia  16:49

The biggest change, I think, is people's relation to gaming. Now gaming back in the days was for gamers, or nerds, if I may call them so. But today gaming, when you think about it, I've got my mother who sends my Candy Crush invites on Facebook. And the fact that gaming has become this powerful force that people use whether it's to escape from something, or whether it's used to stand in a lineup and pastime, or whether it's you holding the bar in a transit system and playing a game on your phone with your thumb. We're really seeing gaming becoming more accessible to people and it means different things to different people. But it doesn't mean that one form of game isn't as big as another. While we're used to the Triple-A gaming world, we've seen some social games and social media games that have really taken on and made a ton of money. So, I think the big force that we're seeing in this space is one around the smaller midsized studios, the Indie gaming companies, the social media gaming companies that are evolving, and to start thinking about how our skills translate into that world. The other part is to think about gamification, which is an overused word, and I'm hesitant always to use it. But how do we take the principles of gaming and apply them to other parts of industry, whether it's eLearning, or whether it's trying to learn a new skill, or whether it's working with, people that are disadvantaged or have certain limitations and how to use those same principles for them. We're seeing this new force of gaming principles being applied to all these other spaces.

 

Pat Perdue  18:23

Absolutely. And a little bit of when I'm not in school and my consulting work, I do some work with organizations that have learning management systems, LMS systems. The idea of installing a game-oriented component to that really increases learnings and improves outcomes.

 

Sumit Bhatia  18:40

Absolutely. I've seen, games being now used for leadership training, I've seen games being used for time management. I've also seen and participated in games that are being used in how to address needs for mental health patients. It really is a is a budding space. But I think what's important for us to think about is what games do is they create an immersive environment and that we become different people, are different part of us. We allow ourselves to release a different part of us, when we enter that immersive - it's like going to Las Vegas now. You're a different person. I'm a different one, aren't we? But that's part of the fun, but it requires a lot of planning and strategic foresight to start thinking about how people are going to react to these immersive environments.

 

Pat Perdue  19:28

Fascinating. So, let's talk about you. Let's talk about your passion in these programs, what are some wins or some successes that you come in, you're like, “Ah, that's why I'm here!”? 

 

Sumit Bhatia  19:39

You know, there's nothing better than having students express their success after they've taken the program. I think that's probably the number one when I think all of us that come in from the industry to participate in the academic space, come with our motivation, because we want to give back, we want to share that knowledge. But really beyond sharing that knowledge, it's the success of the students That really makes it worthwhile. But the other I think, for me, some of the best things have been when I get to work with my students. I had experienced this a few years ago. I worked on a project for the PanAm games. And I walked into an agency. And the first thing they said was, let me introduce you to these four people, and they were my students.

 

Pat Perdue  20:19

How gratifying is that!

 

Sumit Bhatia  20:21

That's the best feeling to see them there to work with them. And, frankly, they enter the industry at different times. So, they bring on a very interesting learning, and to be able to now have the roles reversed and go, I'm going to now learn a few things from you. 

 

Pat Perdue  20:35

Are they terrified at thought of working with their former professor?  I think, I hope not. You don't strike me as the type of professor who would instill terror.

 

Sumit Bhatia  20:46

You know, I get a great amount of joy. And I think my joy kind of, I don't hide it. And I hope they get to see that I really get a lot of joy from working with my students, actually, with peers, because that's exactly what they are the minute they enter into the space, the minute they come into my classroom, they become peers, because they're now Interactive Media professionals.

 

Pat Perdue  21:05

Absolutely. And, you know, you're almost a student in the classroom with them and facilitating the learning experience that you're all experiencing together. If I can just put words in your mouth.

 

Sumit Bhatia  21:14

Yeah, I know, for sure. I had to think about really, what are we doing in the classroom nowadays, because let's face it, there is knowledge available and accessible to everybody. We can go on YouTube and learn; lynda.com is a classic example. And we do the same thing I think for us in the classroom, where what we're really trying to build for students is context around their learning, and start to think and direct a certain type of thinking and encourage a certain type of thinking. And frankly, I think a classroom is a great place for students to take risks, and giving them the ability to take those risks, encourage them to take those risks. That to me is the most powerful part of creating an academic environment in a classroom. That's what I enjoy the most.

 

Pat Perdue  21:53

Got it. Got it. So, what do you see in your future, in the future of the programs in the direction of the school's relationship with the programs? Where do you see them headed?

 

Sumit Bhatia  22:03

You know, the School of Creative Arts and Animation actually does a fantastic job of trying to stay relevant. And that relevance comes from our participation in the industry. It comes from us building relationships with organizations. It comes from running applied research projects in which we bring industry and students into the classroom, and really look at doing some extremely innovative stuff. I'm going to mention a project that we certainly worked on with the City of Toronto, our Chair of the School of Creative Arts and Animation, Mark Jones had this idea of working with a well-known composer, Erica Procure, and who did a piece of music. And he thought, how amazing would it be to see how this piece of music influenced say, different artists? So, he brought that to faculty and the students and we did a showing at Newnham, looking at lots of different forms of media that were kind of influenced. And we did VR. I did a piece on projection mapping, data visualization and sculpting. We had, graphic designers and photographers and musicians do their own renditions of this stuff. And that's the kind of projects that are big wins for us. And when I think about the future direction of our school and of our program, I think that's exactly what it is we do a really good job of - keeping our finger on the pulse of the industry. And we recognize that it’s not enough to keep our finger on the pulse. It's about building relationships and collaborations that actually bring that relationship into the classroom and create a space for students to participate.

 

Pat Perdue  23:40

Absolutely. And perhaps those relationships would live on for the student after their experience in the classroom.

 

Sumit Bhatia  23:46

That's our hope. And I think, thus far, that being the case, and I will also say this, I also recognize that we have to continue to do a better job. There are still gaps between academia and industry, and not for the fault of any one of those spaces or areas. But you know, we have priorities that we have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. But I'm for the first time starting to really feel a sense of excitement around those two worlds coming together. And the kind of relationships that are being developed by these institutions both at the academic level and the corporate level, recognizing that we can support each other and do some really innovative work.

 

Pat Perdue  24:23

That's great. Well, Sumit Bhatia, thank you so much for joining us. Sounds like it's a couple of really, really exciting programs. I'm kind of thinking of enrolling. Forget this consulting thing. I'm changing it all up. Thank you so much for joining us today.

 

Sumit Bhatia  24:39

My pleasure. Really appreciate it.

 

Pat Perdue  24:40

Thank you. 

And that was our guest Professor and Program Co-ordinator Sumit Bhatia. Of course, for more information on the Interactive Media Design or the Game Art and Animation programs, reach out to Seneca College, and they'll be happy to answer your questions. And of course, this podcast is available everywhere you listen to podcasts. If you haven't already done so, go ahead and subscribe right from your phone. That way you'll be sure not to miss an update. And as always, thank you for listening. This has been the Seneca Proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue and wait for it. Stay Proud Seneca! See you next time.