#SenecaProud

Season 1

Laura Cavanagh

Episode 3: Laura Cavanagh

Professor Laura Cavanagh shares her insights about the popular Behavioural Sciences program, its creation and success. A mom, clinician and published author of her book, Essentials of Understanding Psychology, she talks about scientific behavioural approach to happiness and gives her recommendations for podcasts and books that touch behavioural psychology.

Laura Cavanaugh Interview

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hi, Laura, thank you so much for joining us on the Seneca proud podcast. 

 

Laura Cavanaugh  00:03

It's my pleasure, Pat. Thanks for inviting me.

 

Pat Perdue  00:05

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue and I want to introduce you to my latest podcast. This is a co-production between my company YCastr and Seneca College in Toronto. Seneca College is a really great school. I know because over the past couple of years, I've been teaching some marketing and business and customer experience courses there. People come to study at Seneca from all over the world, which makes it a hotbed of innovative thinking. And a big part of that thinking is driven by our amazing faculty, many of whom are well like me, professionals, who are thriving in their own businesses, and teach at Seneca as a way to share their passion for what they do. But needless to say, I've been hugely inspired by the people I've met. And what happens when I get inspired? Well, apparently, I launch a podcast. So here we are. Welcome to the Seneca Proud podcast, where I get to introduce you to some of Seneca College's amazing faculty. So subscribe, download and join me as we meet some of the super inspiring folks who teach here at Seneca College in Toronto. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm glad you're here today.

Hey, hey, welcome to the Seneca proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm so excited that you're here with me today you're going to love this episode. 

So, I've got a pretty important question for you. What do you want to do with your life? I know that's an impossible question. I'm still figuring that out myself. Chances are even if you don't have a specific answer, you want to do something that's impactful. You want to make a difference in people's lives. And maybe just maybe you want to study psychology. And here's the thing. When I first started out in university, I wanted to study psychology. But the classes were huge, and I just didn't feel connected with the material in the program. So, I didn't pursue it. I think that if I had today's guest as a prof and her program as an option, things would have been really different. In addition to being a mom and a clinician and a published author, Laura Cavanaugh is Professor of Psychology and Behavioral Science at Seneca College, and is also the Academic Co-ordinator of the Behavioral Sciences Diploma program. And she joined us in the Sandbox Studio to hang out and talk about why her program is so freaking awesome. Oh, and I really want to give a shout out to Julio and everyone at the Sandbox for all your help in making this podcast series possible. If you're a student at Seneca and you haven't checked out the Sandbox, absolutely do it. It's open to all Seneca students and faculty. And you can do all kinds of media related things there from video and photography to digital music, and recording a podcast. Speaking of podcasts, in today's show, you'll not only hear what a really neat program, the Behavioral Sciences Program is, you'll get to hang out with a really great prof who genuinely cares about her students. I began our conversation by asking Professor Kavanaugh to walk us through what the Behavioral Sciences Diploma program is all about. And with that, I present to you our guest today, Professor Laura Cavanaugh.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  03:16

So I'm the Academic Co-ordinator of the Behavioral Sciences program. Behavioral Sciences is a two-year diploma program that runs at King campus. And behavioral science is a branch of applied psychology. So it's the branch that studies behavior as the name might suggest. And when we're looking to study behavior, we want to understand it better. If we understand it, well, we're able to predict it and analyze it. And then if we want, we can change it, if we if we understand it well enough that we're able to predict it, then we're able to change it. And when we talk about changing behavior, people often think about like therapy, but changing behavior just means adding new skills, adding new behaviors, increasing positive behaviors, or reducing challenging behaviors. Adding positive behaviors could be teaching someone not to hit, or it could be encouraging our citizens to recycle. So it's not necessarily in therapeutic application only

 

Pat Perdue  04:08

Got it. So in your classroom in the classroom setting. First of all, your students must really love it because they're like, whoa, this is so relevant.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  04:16

Yes, and we always say like, it's very hard to turn it off. Like once you start seeing behavior that way. It's hard to not see what people are communicating through their behavior. It's hard to stop analyzing behavior when you understand how behavior works. So

 

Pat Perdue  04:29

As we talk right now, are you analyzing me?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  04:33

I’m gonna have some feedback for you out there.

 

Pat Perdue  04:36

So walk me through sort of your students’ journey.  Okay, they'll start your course, maybe expecting one set. Oh, and they're gonna finish your course. Probably really surprised of what they got out of it, if you can share with me a little bit of that journey.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  04:51

Yeah. So the program itself because it's the study of behavior, and we obviously focus on human behavior, but behavioral psychology could study animal behavior as well. What we want to do first is to give students the underlying principles of behavior. So we don't start with applications, we start with theory. And then as they understand the theory, then they start to learn about the applications. And then when they understand the general applications, we talk about what that might look like with specific populations. So we don't really get into applications with specific populations until second year. So the first year is really all that foundational knowledge because it is so complex, it takes a long time to get that foundational knowledge. And, you know, diplomas range from very vocational to very academic. And there's always a bit of a mix in both, but ours is definitely quite far on the academic end, there's obviously a vocational aspect where we're training students how to do things, what frontline work would look like they do a placement, so they get a lot of hands on experience. But it's also because it's so theoretical, it's very academic. And we actually have transfer agreements with three universities where students can go into third year. There's this myth that college is easier, I do not think that is true. I think it's just different. It's a different kind of learning because you have to be able to demonstrate, you have to participate. It's easier, I guess, in the sense that your classes are smaller that you have more hands on support from your professors. But I think it's more different than easy.

 

Pat Perdue  06:17

What brought you to both the role of behavioral psychology and also to Seneca.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  06:22

So in terms of my career, you know, I actually started out studying biology, and I had a thought that I wanted to go into medicine. I'm not sure why because I nearly like pass out even when I see my own kids like blood or puke. So I don't know what I was thinking. And, and I started, I actually did college first. And I majored in Health Science with a thought that I was going to go on to university, and I did and I was studying biology with a thought that eventually I would go on to medical school. And I really hated it. And I wasn't good at it, you know, partly because I didn't like it that much. I remember doing one of those fruit fly Labs, which, if you've ever taken genetics course, at postsecondary, you've done a fruit fly lab, probably. And you're supposed to sort them until they read either the white eyes or the green eyes, and they all look the same to me, I couldn't figure it out. But when I was in college, I took psychology as an elective, you know, and, and I always say like, it was kind of like, meeting my first true love. You know, I really, I kind of fell in love with psychology. And it was such a, I don't know, like such a life changing moment, although I didn't realize that at the time. But I still remember what textbook I use. I remember my teacher, Mrs. Matson and Mrs. Mess. And so when, when I went on to university, I was doing a minor in psychology, and I was loving and excelling in my psych courses and really struggling in my biology courses. And I did switch, which is something I tell students all the time not to be afraid of, you know, because I think sometimes people get into college, and they're like, Well, I have a semester under my belt, and I'm 18 and a half. So now I'm committed, you know, I gotta see this thing through. But a big part of postsecondary is figuring out who you are, you know, and not just figuring it out, but kind of like creating who you want to be. 

 

Pat Perdue  08:15

Sure,especially these days, where the options are so vast in terms of what someone can pursue.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  08:20

Yeah. And so, you know, I've also racked up student loans, but switching and taking that extra year was definitely the best decision that I've ever made probably the best investment I ever made, to be honest.

 

Pat Perdue  08:34

 I want to spend more time on that. How did you feel about that change?  Did it terrify you? Like, oh, you know, I thought it was going to go into medicine all this time. Yeah. And I'm gonna throw all that away.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  08:43

Absolutely. You know, and it felt, you know, I had the thought that I sent it to my students say where they say like, oh, my gosh, but I'm already in it. Like, you know, I got it. I gotta have a year under my belt. You know, I was worried about the finances because it was expensive. I know, it's even more expensive now. But I just made the leap. And I'm so glad that I did. And in the end, when you graduate, you're 22 you're 23 like, Yeah, from our, my advanced age, I'm just under 300 years old here. You know, it really doesn't matter. And you have a long time to work, you know, and I'm so glad that I made that change. So I went on and I just want to say to our students, like when you come in here, and you're right out of high school, and you choose a program because the name sounds cool, or that was what you were interested in when you were 11 or 12 I think it's really it's actually a great investment to find the thing that really excites you because you have to work a long time and you have to be in school a long time and school is hard and you know if you really don't like it…..

 

Pat Perdue  09:48

…it's gonna be horrible.  Yeah. I also think that it's a huge success to cross something off the list. That's such a win to say you know what, I tried it and I'm really sure that it's not for me.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  10:00

Absolutely, you know, it's so true and bad experiences can be really great teachers, because they do help us, as you said, like, rule something out. And sometimes my students get placed. And so our students do two placements. They do one in their third semester and one in their fourth semester. Occasionally, our students will do one placement that covers two semesters, but we try to make sure that if they do that they're working on different learning goals each semester. And sometimes, sometimes they don't like their placement.  So the great thing about behavioral sciences, one of the great things about behavioral sciences, is that because it's a science that applies to all behavior, human animal, you can go in a lot of different directions with it.  And we actually have students that do some work with a rescue organization called Dog Tails. And they bring in these like really pretty wild, feral dogs, and they keep them at this center until they're adoptable. And so that involves behavior training, until they become, you know, tolerant to being around others and calm and you're able to lease train and house train and all those things. So, so yeah, so we do have students that do work with animals.  My goal would be someday to get a placement with the zoo, because you're right, they do a ton of animal training there that would be really interesting for our students to see, most of our students are interested in working with humans, but we do placements in all kinds of areas. So we have students do placement in schools, a lot of our students do placements in autism agencies, because there's a real, there's a lot of funding and interest in autism. So lots of job opportunities, it's a very employable area. We have students that do placements in correctional facilities.  We have one this year at a correctional facility for adults, and one at a correctional facility for youth with mental health issues. We have students at the center for Addiction and Mental Health we have since at Mackenzie Health Hospital, we have all kinds of placements. Because anywhere where you're trying to teach new skills, or support positive behaviors, or reduce challenging behaviors, you need someone who understands behavior.

 

Pat Perdue  12:13

It's almost two extremes in your program where it's highly theoretical, and then you get the placements when they're right into it and doing it. Are your students a surprised at the amount of theory that they have to go through? And B? How do they feel about the placements? Does that intimidate them?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  12:28

So yes, I think a lot of students, not a lot. But there's, there's always some students for whom the theoretical aspect of the program and the fact that it's pretty intense academically or pretty rigorous academically, is not a great fit, or it's not what they were expecting, you know, they just kind of want to learn some hands on skills. And that's great. And I always say to those students are other programs in the helping professions that are not sciences that don't involve any math, you know, and, and there are good programs too. And they are available here at Seneca. So it's not a fit for every one because there is that kind of the numbers part, you have to be able to take data. It's not hard math, but it is a science. It's not just sort of going with your gut. And then the placement part, you know, it's funny, Pat, because I think we spend like a lot of time. Well, I know we spend a lot of time. Well, let me just go back for a second here. So when we were developing the program, because I've been with the program, since before it was born, you know, and it was still just living in my head. And one of the things that we did when we developed the program was to talk to employers and key opinion leaders in the community. And the big thing that we heard from employers was that what they were looking for in students, either in placements or in new employees was were soft skills. So they always said, like, we can teach hard skills… We can teach; Okay, here's how we do our reinforcement program here, or here's our behavioral contracting system.  But we can't teach them to be on time. We can't teach them to be polite, and they shouldn't have to. So we really took that to heart. And we have a pretty intense placement prep program that our students have to pass, they have to pass two courses in order to go into placement. And the idea in those placements is that, in those courses is that we are teaching and evaluating their soft skills. And it took some time to figure out how to do that, to make this a course that was both passable, but also failable to make sure we were sort of screening out the ones that that weren't a good fit. And so in those courses, we spent a lot of time… Boy like, listen, placement is hard, you know, it's tough.   And we do a placement panel where we bring in students that are currently in placement. And I remember one student saying she was working in a treatment center for individuals with very severe complex needs, so mental health and developmental disability. And she was saying, Listen, you know, you can't work here if you're afraid of blood and poo. We really spend a lot of time trying to like scare them about placement. And then they get into it, you know, some with some trepidation. And actually, to be honest, it's so transformational when they get into placement.  That's when it all comes together. And it's almost like a spiritual experience for people.  Like this is kind of like, oh my gosh! Like, now I get it, and I can make a difference!  So there's quite a lead up to it. And then when they get in, as hard as it is, and they do hard placements, like that saying about blood and poo, she wasn't kidding, you know.  But it's so, it's just incredible. I teach almost entirely, usually the first years, because as the Academic Co-ordinator, it's important that I get to know them soon. I still have my co-ordinator… They're under my wing until they cross the stage with their diploma.  And so I really, like I see such a transformation in the second year students, you know, they come in as, as kids, and they leave as professionals. And it's something to see, it's really something to see. And, you know, we always have students who are post degree, so students who've done a degree, and then come back to do a diploma. And I've heard it say, you know, college is the new grad school, because it's tough to get a job without that hands-on experience, you know.  So they're really coming here for the placement piece.

 

Pat Perdue  16:14

Is that the one thing, if you had to narrow the program down in the program as a product of your imagination, and this is all belongs to you, in terms of your creativity, and what you wanted to sort of the message and the lessons that you wanted to to convey? What's the thing about the program that you're most proud of?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  16:31

Oh, wow. So I mean, the thing with the program, too, is, I feel like it's community owned. You know, we really listen to are the people that we interview the key opinion leaders.  We ran focus groups, we formed an ad hoc advisory committee when before the program ever launched, where we were just talking to people all the time, like, what do they need? What do they need? What do they need? And we also included students in that. So we went to current diploma students and asked like, what, what do students need? Or if they were studying this? What would what would you include? And now we have a sitting Program Advisory Committee, which is composed of committee members. And we also now have an alumnus on the committee. And we really listened to them, you know. And so I think that that's one of the real. One of the things that's very special about the program is that it's not a it's not stagnant. Like I feel like it's evolving. It's changing. My colleague and I, we did a big curriculum review this summer. And we really want to make sure that we're continuing to meet the needs of, of York region, especially. So we're unique in York Region, the behavioral science program, I mean, there's no other one that's serving the needs of your region, of course, our students get jobs elsewhere. So I'm in Toronto, and some, you know, some, I just got to have a student who moved to The Sioux, and got a job there. But I really think that we're meeting a need in York Region that wasn't being met before.

 

Pat Perdue  17:54

What are some of the evolving directions that your advisory committees tends to point you in?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  17:58

Yeah, so one of the big things that we hear from them, is about adults. So there's, in the 90s, there was a massive increase in diagnosis of autism. Some people call it the autism epidemic, and that certainly, those numbers have not leveled off. So some people say is maybe partly better diagnoses, but I think there it also reflects a true rise in the incidence and prevalence of autism. And that population is now there, they're now young adults, you know, and we have an adult service system that's already very, very taxed, you know, with the sort of pre autism epidemic for one of the better we have a pre those numbers up that massive increase, and now that individuals are moving into the adult system, the system is strapped, there's, you know, 10 year waiting lists for beds in the adult system. And really, the waiting lists are artificial in some ways, because they just get filled with crisis, but like when a bed comes up again it’s filled with a crisis, priority case.  And then they're all going to be seniors someday, you know, and we don't have enough resources for seniors now, let alone seniors with developmental disabilities or complex needs or, or mental health issues. And so I think a lot of people think, including many people in the room advisory committee, that that is going to have to be the next big area of expansion, because there's going to be, you know, maybe a social crisis or a public health crisis, you know, and maybe we're seeing that, you know, to a certain extent in some of the violent acts that we saw in Toronto over the summer, because there's not enough mental health services, you know, not necessarily that would have stopped it, but it maybe wouldn't hurt.

 

Pat Perdue  19:51

Sure. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about you as well.  So you wrote a book? 

 

Laura Cavanaugh  19:59

Yes, I did.  So the book is Essentials of Understanding Psychology. And we're coming out with a sixth Canadian edition. So, textbooks are written and then published in multiple countries. And then the way that it works is that you have an author team or an individual author that does the bulk of the writing in that country. So Essentials of Understanding Psychology was originally a US textbook. And then when I actually started teaching in the US and I used a textbook called Discovering Psychology by Hockenberry and Hockenberry. It was actually a really great book. And then when I came here, I wanted to, I did use it for a semester, but I really wanted to have a book that was Canadian. So I looked at different psychology textbooks, and I found this one I really liked it. And one of the reasons that I liked it was that one of the authors was a college professor. And I do think that college professors understand the college student, you know, so I adopted that book for my course. And then I was approached and asked if I would be on the author team for the fifth edition, which I did. And then I guess it went well, because for the sixth edition, I'm the sole Canadian author. But you never work alone and in publishing. And so it really is… It's really been kind of a Seneca collaboration. So one campus faculty psychology faculty named Dr. Ibrahim Contini. He did a number of writing contributions for the project. And Elder Blue Waters, who's in our First Peoples at Seneca Department, was one of our key reviewers and her contributions.  They were incredibly valuable to the project.

 

Pat Perdue  21:41

Well, it sounds really, really exciting. As you think of your course and your program in the future going forward, we touched on a little bit of direction, where do you see it heading?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  21:53

That's a great question. You know, because I think a lot of it depends on how the student population changes. So a lot of students come into the program and are interested in going on to university. And we have, as I said, transfer agreements with three universities. So we have one with York into their psychology program, one with you owe it into their forensic psych program, and then one with Ryerson into their disabilities program. And then Seneca also has a behavioral psych degree that students can transfer into. So we have a number of options for students. And I see a lot of interest in in students in sort of continuing to pursue those directions. I think that in terms of what students are looking for, you know, a lot of the students come in and their, their primary area of interest is not autism or developmental disability, we really encourage them to do an autism or developmental disability placement, because it is such an employable field. But I think as the public starts to see the value of behavioral science in terms of its value to society, in terms of changing behavior, I think we will see I hope, anyway, that we'll see more of a scientific behavioral approach to other sectors of the social service community like mental health and forensics, and that kind of, you know, it's just starting now. And I think there's going to be, I think there's going to be an acceleration, partly because of these sort of public health, or social crises that that we're facing, right? And it's not enough to kind of go like, Oh, well, this client seems happy, or, Oh, well, they didn't, you know, this person was in a treatment home and they didn't reoffend. Well, we had seven staff on them, but they never reoffended. But the reality is that, you know, 96% of people that go into prisons or into treatment homes are released at some point, right? And, and we know that there's a huge risk of recidivism, unless the person is coming out with some new skills and new strategies. So the good thing is, I think that for my students, that means there's going to be more opportunities and more different, more of a wider variety of sectors where their skills are going to be sought after, it's always good to be in an emerging field. You know, my career started, right at the start of the autism epidemic, which was good timing in some ways for a young professional because I had a set of skills and then there was suddenly an urgent need, right. And I think it's great for students to be in a program like Behavioral Sciences, which is an emerging field. There's, it's not at every college. There's not enough workers. There's tons and tons and tons of employment opportunities. And I think that that's it's it's at the beginning of its rise in some of the work that I do with organizations in workplace, mental health and happiness in the workplace.

 

Pat Perdue  24:31

Do you see a crossover in behavioral sciences as well as, as well as happiness at work?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  24:43

Absolutely. One course that they offer in the behavioral psych degree program at Seneca we don't offer it in the diploma just because, you know, when we came up with the original course list for the diploma it was like a seven year long diploma, because there's so many great topics, and so many interesting applications. If you understand the theory, you can apply it anywhere. And one of the areas of application is organizational and behavior management. So if you're a company and you want your employees to be more productive, or you want to reduce absenteeism, what balance of carrot and stick, you know, which like reinforcement and punishment do you need and we know that the power of the carrot is more powerful than the stick. But what types of incentives or rewards are people looking for? Right, and it changes so the younger generation of workers, millennials, like they're looking for things like experiences, time off, flexibility, like those are the things that they really value in, in terms of Workplace Incentives, almost. In some cases, the data shows more than more than money. So that's interesting. Like, that's a big change in the workforce, where the old model was, well, it's, you know, it's money. It's bonus, it's and the newer model is, what could I take? Could I take July off, that would really motivate me? That would, that's what would keep me in the job. And then it's interesting that you bring up happiness, because that's, that's always been historically in the field of psychology, an area that we have left unexplored to a certain extent, right. So a lot of the work of psychology, especially clinical psych is about getting people to, to zero, you know, like, if you're, if you're struggling, we want to get you from a minus five, back to kind of a base level of zero. And there's lots of research and data that psychology holds, including behavioral psych that tells us how to go from zero to five, or, you know, like that you don't have to sit at sort of your baseline level, but what are the things that, that happy people do that make them happier? And many of these things are behavioral, and there, many of them are not surprising, right? They're things like exercising and connecting with people. But those applications of psychology, and especially behavioral psych, I think, are really, really important, right? And I think we sort of have almost like a superstitious approach to happiness, where it's like, well, it's something bestowed on you from above, or it's something that happens in the distant future. But the reality is that there's hard data on what makes people happy. And a lot of it is under our own control.

 

Pat Perdue  27:24

Fascinating. So a lot of the books on my bookshelf, are sort of pop behavioral psychology. So as a person in the field, what are you reading? Who, who excites you in terms of the pop behavioral psychology field?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  27:39

Yeah, so I read everything. It's one of the reasons that, you know, when I took that first psychology course, you know, I was always interested in those types of things, like, you know, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and that kind of thing. And so, it's interesting that, that you see that too, and I'm not surprised that I don't know if you set it on the air or off the air. But I know that one of the pieces of work that Pat does is around marketing, which uses a lot of psychology to influence people's behavior, right?  When we want them to part with their money. How do we make it easy? Anyway, so yeah, there's so many great resources in in psychology to, to access for the the general public, you know, and I'd like to name some authors, but also podcasts are great. So I listened to the Dr. Drew podcast, which is great. Dr. Drew is a medical doctor, but he's also an addiction medicine specialist. So he's very interested in in psychology and behavioral Psych and bringing about behavior change, which is what behavioral science is. And armchair experts that's, oh, my god. He's very interested in Psych. And a lot of his guests kind of talk about those types of things. I'm listening to Dax Shepard. I feel like someone read my diary, but it's the Dax Shepard episode where he had Dr. Drew on. Wow, this is amazing. Oh, my interest coming together. And in terms of books, you know, I like to sometimes just do like a deep dive into a topic. So I read In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, by Gabor Maté.  So Gabor is actually also a physician, but an addiction medicine specialist. So very similar to Dr. Drew, who does a lot of work in US and Canada, does a lot of work in Vancouver with their addiction population, and uses a lot of behavioral techniques and a combination of recovery, but also harm reduction techniques. And there's a lot of when you look at that from a scientist perspective, there's a lot of interesting data. And some of it is conflicting, right? A lot, a lot, a lot of this we don't really have the full answer to yet. Anyway, that was a great, great book. I really, really enjoyed it. I found it particularly interesting because it brought to mind Carl Jung, the psychologist, and he was interested in addictions as well, he did a lot of work, kind of what we would now call sort of a rehab facility or he would bring in individuals with with addiction issues. And he had this idea that addiction was threefold that it was physical, so your physical dependence, psychological, the psychological dependence, this is what I'm used to doing in the evenings and, and then that it was a spiritual hunger, a desire to, like know, the divine or, and or to fill that void. And there was a lot of echoes of that in Dr. Maté’s book. So it was interesting, like 100 years later, and we're still kind of having the same conversation, you know? Yeah, it is neat, but also like to action. I actually read a really interesting book called Missoula, which looked at the psychology of non stranger rape, which is, of course, like the vast majority of sexual assault cases are non stranger, and, and how it was also really interesting, because we're learning more and more about trauma. And obviously, sexual assault is highly, highly traumatic, that was by Jon Krakauer, one of the things that he went into in that book was about how when he primarily was looking at female victims, or female survivors, but when women are experienced a sexual assault, their trauma response is so complex, that it looks different than what we might think it is, especially when it's a non stranger rape, which is what most sexual assaults are. So he did kind of a deep psychological dive into trauma, how trauma affects behavior, how trauma and shock are linked, the long term effects of trauma, and it was so interesting, great read. So you know, I, when I go to the library, I, I just don't go to the shelf. And then I would say that there is no topic of psychology that I'm not interested in. I'm going to ask you for some marketing recommendations after

 

Pat Perdue  32:12

Trust me, they won’t be nearly as interesting for folks out there who are listening to this right now. And they're thinking they're toying in their mind whether or not they should take your program. What are some questions that they might want to ask themselves to determine whether it's the right fit?

 

Laura Cavanaugh  32:26

I think one of the things to ask yourself is, are you interested in psychology? I mean, that's what it is, right? It's a very in depth intensive exploration of one area of psychology of behavioral applications of psychology. So if you flip through an intro to psych textbook, and it's not interesting, this is probably not going to be the right program. I would also ask myself, Am I ready for a program that's kind of rigorous, you know that there is the this it's behavioral science? Not behavioral fun. So there is a rigorous aspect. On the other hand, we offer a ton of support, we have a behavioral science tutor, we have small classes, the faculty are so committed, but I wouldn't say it's an easy program. And then I think the last thing that I would ask myself is just to think about, like, where do you want to go, you know?  Where do you go?  Because I think the students I have like an end goal in mind where even if it changes, which I think you should be open to your end, goal changing minded, but even if it changes, like some sort of thought of I'm doing this because I want to improve the group home system, or because I want to work with young offenders, so they don't reoffend or because I want to make sure that individuals with autism are getting their needs met by the school system. Like I think if you have a goal in mind, that gets you through those long nights, right? Because it's not all fun, like studying is hard. And writing an essay is hard. And if you don't love it, or at least really like it, it's gonna be a tough haul.

 

Pat Perdue  33:59

Well, Laurie Kavanaugh, thank you so much for joining us on the SenecaProud Podcast.  It was a great time chatting with you.

 

Laura Cavanaugh  34:07

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

 

Pat Perdue  34:09

Absolutely. Bye bye.

 

Pat Perdue  34:21

I really enjoyed my conversation with Professor Cavanaugh. And I hope you did too. And the theme seems to be emerging in these episodes. All the profs are so nice. And what's cool about it is that not only do they really know their stuff, they're also so into what they teach. They're not just teaching courses, they're sharing their passion. And hey, did you know you can now subscribe to Seneca proud podcast on iTunes or wherever you get your podcast? And while you're there, leave us a rating and a comment. It makes it way easier for people to find us. Until next time, I'm Pat Perdue. This has been the Seneca proud podcast Thank you for listening and stay proud Seneca.