#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hi, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to Season Three of the Seneca Proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto.

These days because of the global pandemic, yep, that's still a thing. So, much of Seneca is remote from working to teaching to studying. But hey, Seneca College has always been more than a place or a bunch of buildings. Seneca College is an idea. It's a vision for a better future. And it's a challenge to do what it takes to transform that vision into reality. And that is exactly what Season Three is all about. Seneca College is transforming, there are really exciting changes in the works. And this season, we get to take a close look at some of those changes, as well as the people who are helping make those changes happen. So, if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and join me as we discover the changes and meet the people who are transforming vision into reality. Because the next episode of Seneca Proud starts now. 

Welcome back to the Seneca proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm really glad you're here today. This show is longer than our normal show. And as I tell you what it's about, you'll understand why. In 2018, Seneca College's School of Community studies published a groundbreaking report on the experiences of homeless LGBTTGNCQ+ youth in York Region. Now, if you're not part of the community, that might be a longer acronym than you're used to. But it's important to be completely inclusive. I've left a link to an explanation of the acronym in the show notes. The research titled The Experiences of LGBTTGNCQ+ Homeless Youth in York Region explored how well this group is served by the agencies that support homeless youth in York Region. Among other things, the research has studied how inclusive the agencies are, even what does “true inclusivity” mean, and are the agencies safe, and what can be done to improve inclusivity and safety.  For perspective, it's also important to note that some estimates suggest that up to 40% of youth homelessness is made up of the LGBTTGNCQ+ community. So, understanding how well the community is served is pretty important, using both quantitative as well as qualitative research. The report gave voice to the stories of the LGBTTGNCQ+ homeless youth in York Region, and illuminated key areas where this group can be better served. In today's show, we speak with two of the authors of the report.  Both Seneca faculty, and both former Seneca students. And we learn not only about the report itself, but also uncover how their research got started, what that research entailed, and what happened as an outcome of the research. There are a lot of stories within stories in today's conversation. I think you'll find it speaks to what really makes Seneca proud for faculty, for students, and Seneca’s role in the greater community. 

Okay, let me tell you about our guests. We're joined by Jo Gomes (pronouns she, her, hers). Jo is principal faculty overseeing the research the experiences of LGBT GN CQ plus homeless youth in New York Region. Jo is not only a faculty member at Seneca College in the social service worker program she's been teaching here since 2006. Jo is also a graduate of the program. She also has a Bachelor of Social Work degree from Ryerson University, and a master's in social work from York University. Prior to working at Seneca College, Jo has had a career in social service spanning over 23 years. Jo has worked on the front lines assisting youth and adults, including those experiencing mental health issues, homelessness, addiction, and intimate partner violence. Most of her work has been involved in social justice initiatives. Jo has worked on planning committees for York region's Take Back the Night, Pride York Region, and International Women's Day events. She was recognized with the Distinguished Alumni Award from Seneca College and is also a recipient of the Premier Award. The Premier Award honors the important social and economic contribution college graduates make in Ontario and throughout the world. Jo also currently sits on Seneca’s Academic Council and is part of the Equity Diversity Inclusion Curriculum Committee.  And we're also joined by Maureen Bornbaum (pronouns she, her). At the time the research was being conducted in 2017, Maureen was a student at Seneca College in the Social Service Work program.  Having since graduated, Maureen is now a Seneca faculty member and is a registered social service worker, a certified addictions counselor, and clinical traumatologist, working in the field of substance abuse services. Maureen's main professional interests and passion is trauma and helping individuals and families recover from its impacts. Maureen is also Director of Community at Cornerstone to Recovery, an intentional community providing support for those in recovery. I'll leave a link to Cornerstone to Recovery in the show notes. Maureen also has a Bachelor of Honors in Global Development and Gender Studies from Queen's University, and has completed professional development in assist clinical trauma counseling, and is certified in cognitive behavioral therapy and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. In addition, Maureen is passionate about Queer rights, social justice, and community models of social services.  In her free time (somehow, I don't think there's so much free time), Maureen can be found with her two rescue dogs, Cadence and Yuki, who are both Huskies from Northern Ontario. Okay, here's my conversation with Jo Gomes, and Maureen Bornbaum. We begin with Maureen providing an overview of the research report. And then we turn to Jo to learn how their research got started.

 

Maureen Bornbaum  06:12

Absolutely. So, the research was published in 2018. That actually began in 2016. And what it looked at was the unique experiences of LGBTTGNCQ+ homeless youth in York Region. And it actually expanded as we went to go look at service accessing youth. So, youth who are experiencing homelessness, precarious housing, accessing the shelter system, and really just accessing services. And the research explored their unique needs, as well as assessed how current services were meeting those needs, or were not meeting those needs.

 

Pat Perdue  06:48

Wow, Jo, maybe I can turn it over to you, as the lead research faculty.  Can you share with us a little bit about your experience and how the research got started? And how it all came together?

 

Jo Gomes  07:01

Yeah, thank you, Patrick, for that question. And also, thank you for inviting Maureen and myself to this podcast. I'm so glad, very honored to be here. And to speak about this, this research, because we're so passionate still about it, you know? And like Maureen said, 2016 is when we started really thinking about getting it, you know, starting the process of creating this, that really came as you know, my own experiences as a member of the 2SLGBTQ community, gave me some unique understanding of struggles of this population. Having been a youth myself, a long time ago, but I remember it vividly, especially coming out to my family and the situations that can happen in terms of acceptance or family rejection, right? So, you know, from there, there's been, you know, a team that I work with at Seneca, Nancy Sylvain and Philip Chang, were part of this team as well, when we started thinking about working on this and creating this research. And the team was connected to the research topic on many levels, like personally, professionally and academically, right?  So, from there, we really started talking, and really by coincidence, I was at an open house, 360 Kids, and I started the conversation with the CEO of 360 Kids, and we started talking about the gaps within youth that experience homelessness, in particular Queer youth. So, from there, the project was really created on that conversation. And from there, we created that collaboration between 360 Kids Youth, and Seneca. And we started looking at, you know…The research that has been done in this region is very under-researched, and so, homelessness and services and accesses to youth who want to access services, definitely, they're compromised, and accessibility issues often are challenging, and there's barriers that occur to you. So from there, we created a great collaboration. We had many, many meetings. And from there, we applied to Seneca’s Applied Research and secured some funding. And in that process, we started looking at research assistants, and that's where Maureen came in. And the other research assistant of Alex Minnelli and yeah, the rest is history. You know, it was a lot to get to where we are, but I think… and what really happened was that we wanted to create an opportunity for Queer homeless youth to actually be able to speak about their experiences, to talk about what they wanted services to look like, and how they felt about their, you know, lived experiences. So we really, we really wanted to capture that knowledge. And in doing that, we wanted to also hopefully, you know, create recommendations as a result of that research.

 

Pat Perdue  10:30

Great. And if you can share with me a little bit of the “why” behind it; why was it important that this specific topic be researched?

 

Jo Gomes  10:44

I think why it's important is, it's important to note that, you know, to so LGBTTGNCQ+ youth are overly representative in the homeless population. You know, some studies actually say 40% of homeless youth are disproportionately in the homeless population, Queer youth, right. So many youth experienced homelessness. And yet, in this region, there's been a gap in terms of the amount of research done in this area, in particular, with queer youth.  And it is, our research actually was groundbreaking.  It was one of the first to look at queer youth experiencing homelessness or precarious homelessness in York Region. So that was important, you know.  It's important to, you know, again, identify the needs, look at what the service users are needing in terms of service for, you know, to access shelters are to access agencies. Another piece to that, you know, as a social service worker, you know, faculty, sorry, as a faculty in the social service work program, research often informs our practice, right? And as a teacher in the classroom, I always talk about social activism. It's so important in our program that we talk about that to our students. And we say that that's a necessary part of our work. So this research allowed me and our team to actually practice what, you know, what I particularly teach, the one practicing that social activism, right, which is so essential in this work. So that's really important.  Also, I, as a teacher, you know, giving the research, it taught me so much, not only from the participants in the research, but it also taught me from the research assistants, you know, that we had the students that were on board.  They taught us so much that I could bring back to the classroom, the team could bring back to the classroom. In fact, in the FSW, the curriculum, some of the curriculum has been, you know, the actual report or report or research report at some of the readings that students have to do. And that's just fantastic, because they get to know that this was actually something that prior students were involved in.

 

Pat Perdue  13:17

Amazing. And thank you for sharing that.  Thinking about the research itself, and as you were putting it together, as you were having those meetings that you referenced, what was the outcome that you were hoping for? Or was that eve, was it simply an open question? ‘Let's look into this?’ Or was it, ‘Yeah, we really need to uncover some of the truth and document some of the truth, so that this other thing can get done?’ Was it the former or was it the latter?

 

Jo Gomes  13:44

Yeah, that's great question, Patrick. I think what we went into with this research was with an open mind, as much as we can, number one.  And, you know, unfortunately, you're talking to a team that had a lot of knowledge about the, you know, the past research or research that has actually already been done on this issue. So, it's important when one does research that you really go in with, you know, an open mind and not really, you know, try to figure anything out.  Really, we want to really, you know, listen to the participants in, you know, that really informs the research, right?  But clearly, there were some important pieces, that’s why we decided and to identify probably some gaps and barriers, right, that housing services may have. We also wanted to obtain the narratives and the feedback of Queer youth accessing this, this the services.  And the hope is that we would come up with some comprehensive recommendations. And these recommendations are, you know, geared from the youth, right?

 

Pat Perdue  14:56

It's their stories that you're telling us.

 

Jo Gomes  14:59

It’s definitely their stories. And we were, as a team, very honored to be part of that process with them. The research took, you know, it was a mixed method approach, which meant it was qualitative. And it was quantitative, and the survey online was qualitative. But definitely the focus groups are qualitative And focus groups really, you know, gave us such a great understanding of the vulnerability that Queer youth are facing in the region, in terms of accessing services.

 

Pat Perdue  15:35

Thinking back to the relationship of Seneca, and you mentioned that Seneca funded it, once you decided, ‘This is something that we really need to explore,’ What was the next step for you, I guess, to approach Seneca to say, ‘Hey, you know what, we've got this really important topic that needs research. Help us out here?’

 

Jo Gomes  15:54

Yeah, you know, Seneca’s Applied Research provided the funding for this research, and it offered so much valuable support in achieving our goals. It started off with, I guess, like I said, a conversation between myself and colleagues. And of course, you know, we went to my chair, Bilyana Bruce, who I really want to make a shout out to her because she was so supportive of our idea, right? And was, you know, supported throughout the process. And so from there, we contacted, you know, Seneca’s Applied Research, put in a proposal for funding, and also a Geraldine Pelosi, you know, she was instrumental at the time, she was a research co-ordinator, with the Seneca applied research, and I can't say enough to say thank you to her, because she was always a phone call away. She helps support us with the REB, which is the, you know, research ethical board that we had to put an application in for. And Maureen could attest to this, that we spent long hours in a room filling out that form. And it went back and forth a couple of times. That's so necessary for research, right?  And, you know, it really, you know, makes sure that it's as safe as possible for participants to, you know, to be part of the research.

 

Pat Perdue  17:22

Sure. And is this something that was new for you, Jo, in terms of working with Applied Research from Seneca College, or had you had prior experience with this?

 

Jo Gomes  17:32

New with Seneca College. And, you know, overall, a really lovely experience, a great learning curve for all of us, myself included, I learned from everyone on the team. I learned from Geraldine as I say, and you know, we spent a long, long Saturday hours, you know, sitting in Pod C at King Campus. Remember that morning? Yeah, and it was just, it was, you know, I look back fondly on that, because it was such a great way to collaborate with ideas. And in every possible way, we made it a team effort.  It was never that, you know, one person will do everything, we certainly have the conversations that you know, ‘Hey, here're our skill sets.’ And we went around the table and said, you know, ‘I'm good at writing,’ ‘I'm good at presenting.’ or ‘I'm good at this. I'm good at that.’ We divided the work up quite a bit like that. And for me that that really created a great working relationship within our team.

 

Pat Perdue  18:37

Amazing.  And Maureen, I think I'm gonna glance in your direction at this point. You are part of that team, that illustrious team that Jo referenced. And Maureen, can you share with us, from your perspective as a research assistant sitting around that table, attending those meetings, and then going out and doing the research? Can you walk us through a little bit of that?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  19:03

Even talking about it now it still feels like a really surreal experience. I went into college just thinking I was going to college and then it kind of became this whirlwind, really life changing experience. As a student, it gave me a perspective that you just can't have in the classroom no matter how amazing my wonderful Seneca professors were. But to have the ability not only to learn about research and really experience research, but also to be able to go out in the community, and learn from service users, learn from communities, learn from service providers, was such a valuable experience. It gave me a perspective, going working into the field, of really what the field looked like, how it functioned, the good parts, the rough parts, the in between. So, it just gave me a perspective that just can't be taught. No matter how hard we try, so that was such a valuable experience. And I, you know, I feel like I kind of got a four-year degree all wrapped into one just because of the different experiences I got from the research project. So, it was a really surreal experience. But I also got to develop some really amazing relationships. Jo is still now a co-worker, colleague, and a really good friend. And I'm still quite close with everyone on the research team, along with some professional contacts in the field, which is obviously wonderful for someone getting into the field and a student. So, there were just so many valuable experiences that really, when I look back on my time at Seneca, that is the biggest piece that stands out.

 

Pat Perdue  20:39

When you describe it, it's it was such a huge experience for you. When you were first getting involved with it, was it daunting at all? Did you jump in, you know, with both feet saying, ‘I'm all in’? Or was it just like, ‘Wow, this seems like a pretty big deal.’

 

Maureen Bornbaum  20:55

I can actually still vividly remember where I was, sitting in my house and how I felt when Jo sent me an email asking that she wanted to meet with me.  It's a very vivid memory, and probably one of my most vivid memories of that time period. Because it really took me by surprise, because I just had never suspected such an opportunity would come my way. And my immediate reaction was, ‘No, I can't do this.  This is too much. I don't know how to do this. I don't have the skills.’ So, it was definitely a lot of doubt. And I really had to talk myself into it and talk to, you know, my parents, to provide support and really reaffirm that, you know, this might be hard on top of school, but you can't say no to these opportunities, and you know, say no to the opportunities professionally, but really you as a member of the queer community. And as someone who's really passionate about social justice, it's beyond just what it gives me. It also is kind of this, you know, I owe it to my community to also participate in this work. So there's a lot of layers to it. But my initial reaction was, ‘Nope, this is too much.’ I worked through them fairly quickly. But it was definitely daunting, and scary, and anxiety inducing. But I've learned over the years that those are always the best things. So, I'm really glad that I dove in, even though I had some fears there.

 

Pat Perdue  22:14

And I'm so glad that you shared that.  Specifically thinking of those folks who might be listening to this conversation, may be faced with a similar question and hearing those voices that say, ‘No, you shouldn't do it,’ or, ‘You don't know. You don't have the experience,’ Or whatever that voice is saying. And I'm so glad that you were able to overcome that and just dive in. What changed your mind for you? What was the thing that made you say, ‘Yeah, you know what? I think I can do this.’ 

 

Maureen Bornbaum  22:39

I think the biggest piece was that I knew if I didn't, I would look back and I would regret it. I would always have that question of, should I have done that. And, you know, I think I owe my, a lot of my career at Seneca, to participating in that project. I owe a lot of my professional growth. But I owe a lot of personal growth to it too. So, I think I knew at that point, even without knowing what it was going to look like, that I would definitely regret not taking such an amazing opportunity. So that really pushed me over the fear.

 

Pat Perdue  23:09

What a great, great story. I'm so glad you shared that. Thank you very much. Can we talk a little bit about the research we talked about? Or you mentioned, you're going out into the field? And what does that mean? Can you give us a day in the life of gathering the data?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  23:24

Yeah, so the beginning phases were a lot of discussions. And I'm so grateful for kind of the amazing minds that we had. But it was a lot of discussions.  We sat in, this is before the beautiful new Seneca building on campus. So, we sat in the dark in the winter, in these different rooms in, outside of King Campus, and talking and planning, and challenging each other in really trying to do justice by the community that we're about to, you know, jump into and ask really vulnerable questions. So, I think all of us felt a very strong sense of responsibility to do this right. So, in the beginning, it was a lot of writing, as Jo said, it was, you know, applying for ethics approval, planning the surveys, figuring out the tech. So, there was just a lot of planning and talking and talking and talking and talking. After that is when everything really started rolling. So that's when we were reaching out to the community, touring agencies, meeting with agency leaders all in one room, and asking them to be involved and to be willing to open up their agencies in a bit of a vulnerable way, and be willing to let us have access to their community. So, we were going to agencies all over York Region, kind of at all hours of the week, and speaking with leaders there, introducing them to our research, and asking them if they would be a part of it, and asking them what that could look like at their respective agency. So, a lot of scheduling, a lot of chatting, and really, just asking people to take something we're so passionate about and be willing to be engaged with it. After that point. After everything was set. Then it was, ‘Okay, let's actually do the research.’ So that involves going to agencies usually in the evenings, setting up a room that was as private as we could get. And really, just sitting there with the people who were willing to be participants, and creating space where we could have conversations. And we were strangers to them, they had no idea who we are. So, we had to kind of create a space where they were willing to open up, and we were able to not only foster that space, but also do what we set out to do, which was, you know, conduct this research. So, there was a lot of layers to it that I don't know if I really acknowledged at the time, but reflecting back on it, it was a very busy time, but it was a really kind of exciting, energetic time.

 

Pat Perdue  25:41

Did you find that your questions, or even the initiative that you were undertaking, was fairly well received among the agencies? Or did it take some convincing? Share with us a little bit of that piece?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  25:56

A little bit, both. Some people were extremely enthusiastic, and really on board with us, and you know, wanted to be involved in the research. They were really on board with this. Others were in the middle, and others were hesitant. You know, we had some reactions that were unfortunate, if people kind of assuming they didn't have queer folks at their agencies, which was difficult. We had some folks who, you know, understandably, are overworked and underpaid and tired. And the idea of taking on another project, and putting their clients, kind of, under a microscope, I think, gave some people pause. So, there's a lot of reasons that go into some hesitancies.  There's bias, there's exhaustion, there's fear and anxiety about who, what are we opening up our clients to. As we know, some research is done really poorly, and can be quite invasive. So, some people I imagine felt quite protective over their clients. So, there's a lot of layers, but overall, you know, we had a good client base, which means regardless of those pieces, we were still welcomed into agencies, and many of the agencies, you know, put out snacks for us, and we're super welcoming. So, we were really grateful to the community for kind of giving us that space.

 

Pat Perdue  27:09

You know, we were talking about the agencies and their level of receptiveness. But we've also touched on the clients that you were talking to. What was their level of receptiveness to the questions that you were asking, and really asking them to open up their lives and open up their experiences, which seems like it would be a challenging thing for a lot of people to say yes to.

 

Maureen Bornbaum  27:31

Honestly, you think it would, but our participants were amazing. We self-identified ourselves, which perhaps helped them feel comfortable, and talked about our motivations for the research. You know, we weren't some scientific team coming in. We were folks who worked in the field, and we're passionate about the work. But our participants were amazing. They were so open, and so passionate, and they really wanted change. They and they knew what they wanted, and they knew what they didn't want. So, our participants were really clear. And are the reason the research, in my opinion was so great, because they told us how it was they were living these services, and they knew what they didn't want. They knew what made them feel poorly about themselves, and what didn't make them feel safe. And they also knew what they wanted, that could make them feel more safe. So the participants were really just amazing. I can't think of a single moment where a participant really wasn't willing to share. I think our only problem is that we didn't have enough time for them to share all the things they wanted to know.  Our research was quite specific. But they had a voice and they wanted to share it, which just really made the experience so amazing.

 

Pat Perdue  28:39

That's great. You were tapping into a story that wanted to be told it sounded like. So Jo, I'm sort of glancing over at you now, as this research is going on, what was your role in directing, and providing guidance to the research assistants who are going out into the field? How did you know that it was going in the right direction?

 

Jo Gomes  29:00

Yeah, I was never sure where it was going. You know, I echo a lot of what Maureen said in terms of, you know, sitting in a room at Seneca, we got to know those rooms quite well. We usually met on a Saturday. So, there was always availability of space. So that speaks to the RAs who were willing to give up their weekends to do this work. And that's amazing, I guess from me, as you know, trying to co-ordinate and be, you know, take a leadership role, which I struggle with that word, but I embraced it because in my opinion, true leadership does not take control, but fosters collaboration. And I think that that's one of the things that we worked well. But I think, you know, I go back to really thinking about why I got involved and what made it significant and also what was my role in the research as a faculty perspective, and it was really, it was great to mentor students.  The mentoring piece was important to me.  I always want to make sure that students get the most important education they can, while they're at Seneca. And what this research did was take them out of the classroom, and really engage them actively in the community.  You know, our research assistants went out, and they did the facilitation of the focus groups with our support. But you know, they got a better understanding of the research that that was really important, but an understanding of what the community needs are. They also build networks, so I facilitated that part. Research is also a way of gaining valuable networks. And I think that having worked in York Region, as a social worker for, you know, 23 plus years, I also had those connections within the community. So, I knew a lot of colleagues, I still know in, in working in the field. So that was really helpful, I think, to facilitate to lead this research. So all those things really helped.

 

Pat Perdue  31:13

Nice. And as the research was going on, I'm comparing the all the time you spent planning and working in those meetings in the room, and then then the research starts, it starts to take life. To what extent did the life of the research reflect the planning? Or did you find yourself having to make sudden changes or perhaps lean in one direction? Or lean away from a different direction? How did you manage that?

 

Jo Gomes  31:43

That's a really great question, because I think that there were different times that we had to look differently. We were always looking at doing no harm, of course.  That was really the biggest piece. And we always really made sure of that. I think we did an outstanding job of building trust with the youth during the focus groups, you know, introducing ourselves, our pronouns, coming out in the focus groups, ensuring confidentiality forms. But one of the things that we started noticing is that some of the focus groups that we went to, and it was about 10, that we did throughout the region, you know, we started seeing a decline in participants coming to those groups. So, what really was important to do was to kind of change and kind of sit down, and talk as a group and decide, okay, we're missing something here.  So, we looked at the possibility that maybe youth don't want to come because as they're coming to these groups, they're being outed. And so that could be compromising their safety within the agency. So, we started deciding, you know, we're going to take this outside of the agencies, and we connected with Jacob Gal who runs a Newmarket Case Trade Alliance Club, in Newmarket. We, you know, we found him, had a conversation with him. Luckily, I had prior collaboration with him. So that was an easy flow. We went into that group, we had a focus group with them, we had a focus group with Canadian Mental Health Association, who run a group called Under The Rainbow. And so that really was where we, you know, we had 27 participants in the focus groups. So, I think that that was where the bulk of our qualitative research came in.

 

Pat Perdue  33:43

Wow. Sounds like that was a great insight. Did that surprise you? When you realize that the focus group numbers were declining? And you're like, ‘Oh, of course,’ Was it one of those kinds of moments? 

 

Jo Gomes  33:56

Yeah I think it was. I think we, you know, we didn't know it until we were sitting in a room where nobody showed up. And then, you know, it was actually a room where we’re doing a focus group, but it was all glass. And I remember looking out, waiting for participants to come and nobody was coming. And then I started thinking, oh, yeah, because if they come, they're going to be outed. And for many Queer youth, they are not out in these agencies. So, you know, coming to this group, because we only had focus group members who were identified from, you know, 2SLGBT. So that could be a barrier. And until that moment, it was like, oh, okay, we need to change this, right? We need to try to find a different way of accessing youth in the community.

 

Pat Perdue  34:49

Right. Wow. Sounds like a real journey. And what happens next? Maureen, if I can direct this question to you. After these infield conversations took place, and Jo had mentioned there was some quantitative as well as qualitative research going into this, once you get the data, what happens?  Then I guess you put it into a document, you analyze it in some way? What's that process look like? 

 

Maureen Bornbaum  35:15

That was actually another vivid day because we had the focus groups. But we also had surveys, which were open to both Queer youth and non Queer youth, because we also want a non Queer youth perspective on the quality of services, their perspectives.  Do they think Queer youth access services? That was really important to us as well. So, we have the surveys end on a certain date. And I managed the tech side of things. When the day everything ended, it was like, ‘Okay, let's download the data.’ And it was quite an exciting and nerve wracking moment. I remember for all of us to finally be able to actually look at this quantitative data. And so, we downloaded the data. And that was an exciting moment to, kind of, see some of our hypotheses confirmed about service use.  Some surprises, we tried to emphasize in the research giving youth a lot of space for narratives. And that's reflected in the report, because we wanted to include their voices as directly as possible, rather than just having to check a box that we've written. So, we got to really see and hear a lot of hard, painful stories from our participants. And really, not only be reminded of why we were doing this, but really see kind of a lot of the things that we thought and felt, become confirmed, and then learn some new things, and have our previous thoughts and ideas challenged. So, the process after that was, again, back to our rooms at Seneca Pod C. 

And really, those times I know they were fun in diving into the research. So, then it was looking at, okay, what is the data tell us? How can we pull themes from this? What are the recommendations? And that period was a long period that extended, after Alex and I graduated, I think, almost pretty much a year. Because it's, you know, the research project started small and then kind of grew beyond it’s needs assessment. So, it was about a year of compiling the data, writing the report, sharing the report with each other, editing each other's, and really trying to get it right to honor the voices of our participants. So, a lot of writing a lot of late nights, a lot of back and forth. But our team was amazing and was really supportive of each other, and able to challenge each other, but still maintain really strong bonds. So, it was quite a quite an experience.

 

Pat Perdue  37:36

And it sounds like you just had a great team. So, then what happened? You compile the research…

 

Maureen Bornbaum  37:45

We put it all together. And then we ended up coming out with a report which is available through the Homeless Hub, and published through Homeless Hub. And we developed an Executive Summary report, which highlights how we did things and the typical research stuff, where you talk about your methodology and talk about your results. But most importantly, provided our recommendations, because in my opinion, and I think Jo will mirror this, this is the most important piece. What do our participants have to say about their experiences? And what do they want to see change? So, we compiled this report.  And then from there it was, ‘Okay, how do we get this out there?’ Because in so many of our conversations, as someone with an academic background, and for me, I was really, I went to college, because I was really kind of, you know, I felt deflated by the academic experience of research, research research. But how does this apply to real life? So, something we had a lot of conversations about. And really, we're pushing each other to remember that we don't just want this to sit on a website. Research is important. Research is great. However, when we only rely on research and nothing comes of it, why are we doing it?  So, all of us felt really strongly that we wanted to get our participants’ voices out there and hopefully produce some positive outcomes. So, after we compiled the report, we published the report. And then from there, it was kind of contacting people. So, we contacted all of our agencies, any of our participants who requested to be updated, and let them know about the results, and invited them to this beautiful event at Seneca that Jo planned. I take no credit for that. So that was all Jo. And then from there, it was kind of spreading the results to folks to let them know, kind of, what we had found. We did a few different things.  We got to present at the El conference, which was an amazing opportunity, and a few different opportunities where we got to talk about the research on some other Seneca videos and things like that. So, it was kind of trying to spread the research, but really, more importantly, spread the voices of our participants.

 

Pat Perdue  39:43

And Jo, can you tell us about this event that Maureen referenced?

 

Jo Gomes  39:47

Yeah. It was again, something that, you know, I'll echo what Maureen said. We didn't want this research to sit on a shelf and collect dust, and not to hear from the voices of the participants. So, once we wrote and, you know, had the report all written, we decided, I decided, to reach out again to Seneca’s research department and look at, Hey, how can we present this? And the Applied Research team at Seneca was very receptive to creating an event, and we called it the Report Launch. And we invited partner agencies. We invited participants who had been involved in the research.  We invited stakeholders.  We invited funders.  We had, yeah, I would say 60 to 70 people attend roughly. And it was a great event. It got us a chance to talk about the research, finding the dominant themes, the concerns, the recommendations.  But it also allowed for us to have an opportunity to network with agencies. And at the end of that event, you know, we basically did a call out to say, we really want people to participate in creating this research to be actionable, you know? We want it to continue from here, right? And we were so fortunate to be able to have dialogues, and continue dialoguing with Michael Braithwaite, who is the CEO of Blue Door. We just kept that conversation going. He's, you know, got up and once we put the call out to say, you know, we really want this to, you know, take, like I say, take action, right? And he certainly has been a great supporter of this research.

 

Pat Perdue  42:00

What are some of the, what are some of the outcomes?  Can you share with us? Maybe, and I'll open this to whoever wants to jump in and answer first.  But, any outcomes of the research that come to mind? And maybe is there an outcome that has really led to some changes for your clients?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  42:18

One of the biggest themes and the outcomes that it produced was looking at, we need to go beyond superficial methods of safer spaces. And I'm using little air quotes here. You know, one of the participants actually said, you know, “We can't just throw a rainbow flag up on the wall and think we're done.” And unfortunately, that's what we see in agencies.  You know, they have the safer space stickers. But is it actually a safe space?  And that was a huge finding. And a few different participants noted that, that we need to have meaningful representation, not just in media, but also across staffing, across our referrals, across the ways in which staff are educated. And that, to me, was kind of a standout recommendation that we need to move beyond one weekend of staff training, on, you know, Queer issues and Queer language.  It needs to be more meaningful than that. And it needs to be more real, you know? What are the movies we show on Movie Night at shelters? Do they only depict straight stories? Do they only depict cis-gendered identities? So, our participants felt really strongly about the meaningful representation. And to me, you know, out of all the outcomes, that's always the one that resonates with me the most. So Jo, I don't know, if you want to build beyond that.

 

Jo Gomes  43:41

Yeah, I can add to that. And you know, you can't be yourself if you don't see yourself. And so, representation is so important. And I say that, because a lot of what the youth express to us was that they didn't feel safe, being at many of the services, and the safety was about not being out. They didn't want to openly identify, you know?  They felt that sometimes their safety was compromised from staff, but also from other service users. So that was really an important thing to be mindful of. I think what Maureen mentioned is the service environment. You know, seeing yourself in agency is so important. And one of the things that it also, you know, stuck out for me too, and I think it was when we were doing focus groups, is that, many youth experienced homelessness due to being kicked out of their home, right, in particular, queer youth, right? Family rejection.  So they go to services on, you know, housing services, and other agencies and they can't be out in the services. So, it’s this whole rejection again, right? Of who they are in their being. So that was very impactful. And I think that's the biggest takeaway for me that, you know, we have to create spaces that are safe and affirming for use within our communities at large, but also in our social service institutions.

 

Pat Perdue  45:21

And what's your sense of the impact of your research on agencies today?

 

Jo Gomes  45:29

Yeah, you know, I'm always I try to think about the positivity of it. Because there were a lot of, you know, things that were brought up that are concerning. So, I believe our research, you know, creates the opportunity for promising work to happen, for sure, right?  And one of the things that recently, we heard about is Blue Doors creating a program called Inclusion House. It's a transitional support housing, which is fantastic. And again, Michael Braithwaite, you have heard his name mentioned many times in this podcast. And it's just because him and I just kept continuing the conversation. And, you know, I think I kept challenging him a lot. But it didn't take a lot of work.  He was really committed from the beginning of this research. And transitional support housing is, you know, going to be a place where it's longer term.  It's for one year, and it's going to help for 2SLGBT youth. And with that, they're going to actually be able to, you know, have population specific services for them, right?  And it's going to be really enhanced in terms of advocating, finding them longer term housing, maybe getting them back into the workforce, looking at life skills, looking at maybe re-entering some education programs. So, it's, it's going to be such an amazing opportunity and such a great thing to have in our community. But one thing too, that's really important is that it's not enough to open housing programs.  Youth need options. So, all those things that our research findings, looked at all the recommendations from the data, certainly, you know, suggest that all services need to be affirming, right? The youth need to have choices. And we found this out through the focus group that some youth, you know, don't want to go to population specific services, right? They want to be able to access any service. So that's, that's another call out. These services have to be inclusive. All services, right?

 

Pat Perdue  47:44

A great point. And what a great success story of Inclusion House as a direct result of your research. Sounds like such an important win. Looking back in hindsight, at the experience of the research in its totality. We've talked about some things that went great. Was there anything that if you know, if you could have it to do over again, you wish could have been a little bit different?

 

Jo Gomes  48:08

I think the challenge is maybe for me, is, you know, what happens after the research, you know? I mean, it's, it's all of this is being done on our own time, which is important work. But it's also like, something that I think, to look at that maybe Seneca Applied Research can think about is what happens to get the research off the shelf, right? And they were a great support to us. But there's so much work to do after the research, right? Because you want to follow up. You want to have these events. You want to go to conferences to talk about, and present the research, right? That's been a challenge, right? Because it's about time commitments. And, you know, now that our, you know, our RAs aren't students anymore, and they're in the field. It's also asking them and inviting them back. And we again, we're fortunate to have great RAs I know that still are committed to this work. But you know, it's a balance, right, to make sure that we keep talking about this, and that we keep the message going, right?

 

Pat Perdue  49:21

Great point. And Maureen, I'm glancing at you now, in hindsight, you're graduated, you're in your career… To what extent has this experience impacted or helped form your sense of who you are in your profession today?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  49:40

I think it gave me a very strong and honest base, and a kind of a reality check before I was even in the field, about how easy it is to fall into complacency and to not continue to challenge how and why we do things.  Especially, you know, sometimes we do things and we have policies just because that's how we've always done things. And this research really instilled in me a constant reminder, to challenge how and why we do things, and to try to constantly improve service. Because we owe it to our communities, and we owe it to ourselves. So, it really gave me that base of that reminder, because none of the services we worked with who may have been, you know, a bit more challenging, they're not bad people.  They're not bad social workers, they're not uncaring. I think everyone goes into this field from a very caring, loving place. But it can be a hard field.  And there's, you know, all the challenges of not enough funding, etc. So, it can be easy to be beaten down by those things. So as a person, kind of going into the field, at the time that I completed the research, it was really that stark reminder of, I need to stay close to how real injustice is. And I really need to hold that close to my heart as I go into the field, so that I too don't fall into that. Because I have total compassion for workers who do, because it makes sense, right? It's tiring work sometimes. So that's the biggest piece, of holding that close to me. And staying connected to what the service users want, because that's more important than what I want.

 

Pat Perdue  51:14

Amazing point. And I'm going to open my last question up to both of you.  For agencies or faculty members who would like to answer the question, What's next in terms of research or finding out more information about this important question? What guidance might you have for them? And I think I'll glance at Jo first, and maybe Maureen if you can answer after that.

 

Jo Gomes  51:37

I kind of you know, I am thinking about what I'd like to say as my final words. And I think what's most important is we think about, or we encourage a shift in the energy of resources available towards action, rather than continuing to focus on research, in particular, regarding this research, right?  I think that there has been enough research, you know, in this region regarding 2SLGBTQ youth who experience homelessness, that is enough to warrant some action. And I say that respectfully, because I understand there's, it's a lot of work, because tackling homophobia, transphobia heteronormativity practices and ideologies are, you know, are in within our institutions, but they're also systemically, here, right?  So, you know, the research offered and elevated and amplified the concerns from the participants, right? And so, my hope is that at some point, the conversation in the learning shifts and takes the form of action.

 

Pat Perdue  52:50

That's an important point. I'm so glad you brought that up. And Maureen, what are your thoughts on that?

 

Maureen Bornbaum  52:55

I think it goes back to all the fear I had going into it. It's just, it's really important to say yes. And to all of us to push ourselves out of our comfort zones. And to be really curious. I, you know, I work in the field. And I think all my clients hate the word “curiosity,” because I use it so often. But it's so critical if we need to be curious and to really push ourselves to look at how things can grow, how things can change. And I encourage all students who have the opportunity to get engaged, because it is quite the journey and it's so rewarding.

 

Pat Perdue  53:28

That's great. Well, on that very positive note, Maureen Bornbaum, Jo Gomes, thank you both so much for both the work, and for joining us here on the SenecaProud podcast today. It's been great having you.

 

Maureen Bornbaum  53:40

Thank you so much, Patrick.

 

Jo Gomes  53:42

Thank you, Patrick. It was great. Thank you.

 

Pat Perdue  53:48

And that was my conversation with Jo Gomes and Maureen Bornbaum.. There's a lot to unpack from that from the actual research itself  (I've included a link to it in the show notes), as well as the impact it's had on the community and the participation of the research subjects to the story of the research, which includes Jo's inspiring dedication as an educator, and the rigor and commitment Maureen and the rest of the students as a team brought to the project as well. As always, I'm very grateful to Jo and Maureen for setting aside time in their busy schedules to spend time with us. And thank you for listening. Until next time, I'm Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca.