#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hi, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to season three of the Seneca proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto.  These days because of the global pandemic, yep, that's still a thing, so much of Seneca is remote.  From working, to teaching to studying. But hey, Seneca College has always been more than a place or a bunch of buildings. Seneca College is an idea. It's a vision for a better future. And it's a challenge to do what it takes to transform that vision into reality. And that is exactly what season three is all about. Seneca College is transforming. There are really exciting changes in the works. And this season, we get to take a close look at some of those changes, as well as the people who are helping make those changes happen. So if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and join me as we discover the changes and meet the people are transforming vision into reality. Because the next episode of Seneca proud starts now. 

And welcome to the first episode of season three of the Seneca proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm really excited to be with you today. We've got a great show for you. You heard in the show introduction, that Seneca is undergoing some major transformations.  From how we use our one card, to how classes are conducted, to creating a more equitable workplace. Everything is on the table, the name of the initiative that's driving all that change is Au Large, and it's a truly massive undertaking that's designed to prepare Seneca College for an exciting post-pandemic future, a future that is not only technologically advanced, but also one that is diverse and genuinely inclusive. And it's super fitting that for our first episode of this season of Seneca proud, our guest today is the president of Seneca College, David Agnew.  President Agnew has been on the program before, and it's great to be able to welcome him back.  In the 11 years he's held the position of president, I suspect there's been little to compare to his experience in navigating Seneca College through these unprecedented times during the pandemic. In our episode today we touch on the specific changes Au Large will have on Seneca College overall. And also we talk a little bit about what it's like to be president of a massive college when just about all of the staff, faculty and students are working remotely. Amazingly, President Agnew has always opted to come into the office. Even back in March and April when it was pretty much just him. We'll hear about what that was like. As well as a personal discovery President Agnew uncovered about himself as leader of Seneca College during a global pandemic. We started our conversation with President Agnew talking specifically about Au Large and how this unique time during the pandemic highlighted specific challenges that Seneca College is taking on through the Au Large project. It's a big initiative. Okay, here's my conversation with the President of Seneca College, David Agnew. 

There's a process of transformation taking place known as Au Large. Can you share a little bit about that initiative and what it means for Seneca’s future?

 

President David Agnew  03:24

Well, I'd be delighted to and of course, your reference, dare I repeat the word unprecedented times? Once every 100 years or so we have a global pandemic of this scale. But, you know, seriously, it kind of brought to the fore simultaneously four challenges, you know, and so you could almost say the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, I mean, a health challenge, a huge economic challenge, of course, in the midst of that a huge kind of reawakening on a justice challenge. And it even highlighted our climate challenges our sustainability challenges, because of course, we noticed as we shut down suddenly the air got clear and, you know, the, waters seem to get more transparent. So in the Au Large project, and it didn't set out to do this, but we're actually addressing all of those challenges as we look to the future and look to a renewed Seneca. I mean, we decided early on, in the pandemic, whatever the new normal is going to be, it's not going to be the old normal. So let's start thinking now about how we emerge from this as a as a thriving institution, one that's really focused on the challenges of the future, not of the past. And so just to sort of take those four challenges, obviously, it all starts with a safe return to campus and we've been, we've been hugely engaged with that, trying to make sure that we can, you know, meet our core mission of education while not risking the safety and health of our students and our employees. In the economic sphere, of course, we're talking about a pretty significant retooling of the institution to become more virtual, more flexible, more convenient for students, better able, and more bar adaptable to meet the needs of that of that recovering economy. Our commitment to equity is, is all around action, not just more words, and we've engaged the community to do that. And finally, on the on the climate front, we've really embraced the sustainability agenda. And I'm very excited about that, not just in our programs, which, you know, to some extent, always been there and, but also throughout the organization. So it really is, as we say, a renewed Seneca. And it's very, very exciting.

 

Pat Perdue  05:52

That's amazing. And we have a sense of the before picture. So before the pandemic, this is Seneca.  Is there a vision, or is there a sense of what an after picture might look like? If I'm a student, and I'm engaging in my classes, or I'm walking down the halls, or I'm a faculty member or a staff member? How will I know that change has happened? 

 

President David Agnew  06:12

Well, I mean, I think there's a whole bunch of things that will be different, starting with physical things, but also very much and you know, and what we offer and how we offer, we've had an amazing response to a call that we did for members of the community to join an Equity Diversity and Inclusion committee.  And they've got three immediate tasks that we've put in front of them to help us design a sense of, so we know who works here, and who studies here to look at our procedures for recruitment for promotion for, for hiring, to, to make sure that they are free of anti-black racism, but free of all forms of racism and discrimination, you're gonna see a change in our programs, where more is available online, not everything. And that's, you know, partly who we are, we can't do everything online. That's, you know, that's the nature of our programs. But clearly, people want to do more online in that new normal, they want that choice, that convenience, that flexibility, and we're also you know, we’re moving as others are, to be fair, to short, shorter courses more, what's now the fancy word micro credentials. Okay, and that partly picks up on the need. And this was before the pandemic, but certainly has been accentuated of short, sharp-skills focused ways of rescaling, upskilling, new skilling, and we're seeing that, of course, as a result of the pandemic, but it's also a result of the changes happening in the economy. And so there'll be very thankful physically, when you come back on campus, I mean, you'll see reimagined spaces.  You know, one of the results of not having as many classes is, you don't need as many classrooms.  But we can reuse those spaces in different ways. We're going to not lift the shutters on the counters. I mean, why would we do that? We're gonna go cashless, I mean, we've already we're, we're 95% of the way there anyway. But, but it's going to with along with a virtual, you know, One Card, what we call our One Card or identity card, it's gonna be on your phone, and it'll open doors, and it'll pay for your lunch and all those kinds of things.

 

Pat Perdue  08:26

That sounds amazing and Herculean.  What kind of timeline are you looking at? And I frame that question with the interest that my students have, and my students are from all over the world. And we meet virtually, but of course, they're really excited and looking forward to when they can actually come to campus. So as the Au Large project continues, and also you're considering the timing, when folks are coming back to campus, how are those two agendas sort of intersecting?

 

President David Agnew  08:58

Sure, no, that's a great, it's a great question. And obviously, in the totality of the Au Large project, let's be realistic, and let's be honest with each other. You know, the aspiration and the absolute commitment to an equitable Seneca is not something that we're going to, you know, check that box in a month. I mean, that's huge. cultural change, that's huge systemic change, and so on. Same with our sustainability agenda. I mean, you know, we are not a netzero institution. It's very challenging to get there. But, but there's a ton of commitment. And that'll take, that'll take some time. And we know that. We've seen that in other places. But on the more immediate side, I mean, part of the challenge we have, and this was from day one, I mean, I you know, I was one of the most reluctant to actually shut our campuses.  Even after we went online, made that decision, in terms of the teaching and learning, I thought, you know, there's a way of keeping our libraries open, our Computing Commons or, you know, a place to gather.  But it became clear, and of course we made the decision before the decision was made by a government to kind of just okay everybody go home shut down. So now we're, you know, at the other, we're sort of, I use the analogy of a tap or sort of gently opening the tap. And, of course, the first, the first people back on campus, were the students who couldn't graduate last April. And because they had some practical computer lab-based components.  Now, labs are lots of things, studios, airplanes, so on, but let's just use the word lab. So they needed to come back. And so we started that in the summer.  It's just literally a handful of students given how big we are. And that was when that went well. And we, we then opened the door to students who weren't necessarily going to graduate, but they also got interrupted, so they have courses. So they came back. And now in the fall, we have about 2000 students, about maybe 200, faculty and staff associated with those labs coming. And they're not all coming every day, but they're coming on campus just for their labs, nothing else is open, you can't come to the cafeteria, you can't go to the library. And that's because right now, and I mean, as we are talking, as you know, the cases are not going the right way, in Ontario, we're in Toronto. Our goal is to keep the campus population down. When we can, you know, the next step would be to start to reopen some of those common spaces to be a gathering space. Again, for our students, in some cases, to be a place where they can use a computer, get Wi Fi.  But right now, of course, again, the focus is on trying to keep the campus population down. And every time, you know, a human-being walks through a place, we have to send the cleaners in afterwards. Because that's, you know, that we're very conscious of trying to keep the infections at bay.

 

Pat Perdue  11:52

Sure, sure. So what are some of the indicators that you're watching for… You mentioned that, you know, cases are going in the wrong direction? And Ontario? What will tell you that it's time to turn that tap a little more?

 

President David Agnew  12:05

Yeah, I mean, obviously, first and foremost, we were guided by public health guidance.  You know, the authorities, whether they're national, provincial, or local. And just as a bit of a side note, sometimes it's a bit challenging, because we do have three levels of advice coming at us. And they don't always agree. I, as another side note, I'm very sympathetic to that world, because the more we know about this terrible virus, the advice can change. And so I appreciate that as well. But nonetheless.  So obviously, we're guided by that, that overall advice. You know, obviously, I mean, one of the things we're looking for, we're all waiting for an effective, widely distributed vaccine.  We're also waiting, because we know this is another way of approaching a virus, is for effective and widely available treatments. So even if you get sick, it's not as catastrophic as it is now for some people. And, and hear I mean, on this last one, I really believe we could do more, for better testing, more rapid testing. So, in fact, it's, you know, safer to go about our business, knowing that we're virus free.  Because right now, it's challenging, as we all know, in the testing world. So some of those things will help us.  I mean, but again, I think overall, we just we have to be guided by our public health authorities.

 

Pat Perdue  13:27

Got it. And you mentioned, you know, the change that you're shutting down Seneca, massive, massive, I guess, disruption throughout all of this, how is Seneca College doing as an institution?

 

President David Agnew  13:42

Well, you know, honestly, if I go back to what I was thinking in March and April of last spring, a whole heck of a lot better than I thought. And in fact, we are doing well.  We, and I mean, I will give huge, huge, in fact, all the credit to our employees, to our faculty and our staff, who not just, I mean, of course, it was a miraculous, as we say, pivot back in March to, you know, shut for a week and go come back virtual, but, but that pivot continues and you know this.  You’re faculty.  You know, the more you do this, the more you learn, the more you understand how you connect with students in this virtual approach.  You know what you miss, too? Sure.  And you can see how you could supplement that, once we're able to, with you know, physical interactions and so on and so forth. And I also give credit to our students who have basically showed enormous understanding and patience for all of this, but you know, some good news:  Our enrollment in both the summer and now this fall semester, is actually more than last year.  We've actually achieved, through really, really hard work, and this is where I sincerely give credit it to, in particular the faculty for the experience they've provided; We've had students returning in large, large numbers. So that's good. Now, we just got some great news. The federal government, which is, our international students are now once again able to come and join us in Canada even if they can't come to campus to study.  That also positions them, when we are able to reopen, to come much more quickly than if they're in their home country. So that's great news. So we're very pleased about that. Because of course, you know, we’re a full three semester school. So we, you know, we run…Our biggest semesters, of course, are our fall on winter, but our spring summer semester is a full semester with in last year 13,000 students. So we're very pleased. But we also know that this is a challenging, challenging enemy, this Coronavirus, this COVID-19. So we are taking nothing for granted. And that's partly why we're taking such a cautious and safe approach to the reopening.

 

Pat Perdue  16:03

And you mentioned some of the changes that the faculty are employing to pivot, and to remain connected to their students, and also the students meeting faculty halfway, you know, and the patience, particularly of the international student community, to meet our faculty halfway and join the asynchronous classrooms. And you know, and I think we had a conversation prior to this, it's just if I can reflect that, that my own experience as a teacher, here, we have our lecture, but I find between lectures, the amount of connection that I get to have with my students, is actually more than it was when I would teach in person. And I find that a really, really interesting and quite frankly, a surprising benefit to all of these changes. I'm wondering if you're hearing some similar things from other faculty,

 

President David Agnew  16:55

I am and it's funny, you know, one of the things I know from a student perspective that they value so much about, I hear this all the time, is the connection with the faculty, you know, when they can make that one on one connection, even in this virtual environment, it means the world to them, you know, to check in, how am I doing whatever. So I know, I absolutely hear that. And, you know, what you saw on the Au Large report, we put we put emphasis on the continuing investment in helping our faculty with the online and the virtual teaching techniques. We also are helping the students with the virtual learning techniques.  There's two sides of that coin. But we're also making a significant investment in you know, the big field of XR, you know, augmented reality, virtual reality simulation software, all of which can help, again, in this virtual environment, replicate the physical environment, and that in that teaching environment, I mean, you know, part of this and I was thinking about, you know, when there are things that we all deeply miss in this pandemic, and then there's some things that we don't miss. And we probably don't want to go back to. And I certainly hear this from both students and employees, I don't miss the commute. I mean, we have students coming in from places that are an hour and a half to two hours away one way, by public transit, we have employees who live in places that require them because of the when they work or teach to take the 407 and pay 407 bills. So we have people who say, “Look, if there's a way I don't have to commute as much, I vote yes.” We've learned that we don't need to make people line up, take a number and stand waiting for a counter. Well, why would we, you know, go back to that experience. So you know, we make people wait, for course starts because, “Oh, no, it doesn't start till September.” So you know, those are the kinds of things. So we'll come back to the things that we've missed: The people, the interactions.  But there's an opportunity here that I believe sincerely we have an obligation as an institution, is to ask with every one of those, really, do we need to go back to that? And of course, the answer is no. This is very, to me, that's the exciting part.

 

Pat Perdue  19:15

I know. I'm looking forward to everything that you described. I'm looking forward to being able to hang out and spend time with my students. And I'm also looking forward to not the commute. And speaking of which, you are joining us today from your office at Seneca College. Is that correct?

 

President David Agnew  19:36

Absolutely correct.

 

Pat Perdue  19:37

One of my favorite movies, I was thinking about this just before our conversation today, one of my favorite movies is a movie. It's from the early 1970s. And I'm giving away my age a little bit, and it's called The Silent Running. I don't know if you're familiar with it, with Bruce Dern.  He plays I think the lone human being on a massive ship, and he's taking care of plants with a couple of robots. My description is horrible, but it's kind of a brilliant movie. Is this you? Like how, how much? Can you relate to the Bruce Dern character of this movie?

 

President David Agnew  20:11

Certainly, in the early days of, of the kind of the virtual Seneca, I can relate very much.  It was, it was spooky. To walk down these.   So I'm at our main campus, Newnham campus, and we have 15,000 students enrolled here we have 1000s of staff, in and out. And there were literally a handful of people, some security, some custodial, and just a very few essential employees. And it's gotten better, I will say, because we now have some students on campus coming to their labs. But Pat, it's very surreal. I mean, it really is.  Because they're coming in, everyone wears masks when they move through the halls, and people have been very good about that. We don't have any spaces open. So you know, you can't even sit down until you get to your lab, and, you know, lots of places are roped off again, always trying to discourage people from you know, touching stuff that we have to clean.  We've got this beautiful, beautiful, huge new cafeteria that's been expanded to take extra population, of course. It’s all set to go. So it's yeah, it's a little eerie, but, but you know, what?  I take kind of an old fashioned view that, you know, the, the captain is responsible for the safety of everybody on the ship. And that's your ultimate responsibility. And that's why I'm here because ultimately, you know, this is, this is the ship. And even as, even as we went down to a skinny minimum, we're asking people to come on board. We have our IT folks handing out, you know, lender laptop computers.  We've got our cleaners and our security in here. We've got facilities that need to be maintained. So my old fashioned view is, the captain needs to be on board

 

Pat Perdue  22:11

And on behalf of faculty, and also the students, thank you for all that you do. And thanks to all the folks that you mentioned, who are also coming in and keeping that particular ship afloat while we, I'm going to continue this metaphor, while we navigate these choppy waters.

 

President David Agnew  22:26

Well, no, it's a fantastic team. And it's really, it's just an honor to lead them but it you know, we're making progress. It's not as fast as any of us imagined. And certainly, you know, I mean, go back to those early early days of the pandemic, remember?  We were going to shut down for a week, go virtual for two weeks, and then come back?

 

Pat Perdue  22:47

Oh, those were the days.

 

President David Agnew  22:50

So we've learned so much, and some of the abnormal has become a bit more normal. But we're making progress.

 

Pat Perdue  22:56

And just a question about your experience, if I may, around COVID-19 and self-isolation. And during this time, you know, it's challenged us in unique ways where we have to self-isolate, and our everyday sort of processes and rituals have been interrupted. And for a lot of people, it's allowed them either to discover or rediscover aspects about themselves. And I'll share with you what mine is. This is a discovery, it's cooking. Prior to this, I was a horrible cook. And I continue to be, well, a less horrible cook.  But I actually like it. You know, I appreciate the process of, of preparing food, and that's something that I I never understood before. So I'm going to ask that question to you. Is there something that you've either discovered or rediscovered about yourself as a result of this whole experience?

 

President David Agnew  23:50

You know, back in the in the spring, you know, every so often I had to make these sort of challenging and not terrifically good news announcements to everybody; the community, the employees and the students. And one, I guess it was Thursday, I was thinking, Gosh, I haven't been in touch with the employees in a little while, and I should probably.  But I don't really have anything to say. So I wrote a memo. It basically said, “Update. Not much to say but, I just I just wanted to be in touch.” And I mused about you know, does anyone else miss their barber, and, you know, kind of fun stuff like that.  Goofy stuff. I mocked up a page, my official page on our website with a picture of Fabio, the guy with the long hair, as my picture.  So during the spring I, every Friday I had the, what you know, the Friday Email. it was always, “Update: Something.” And sure, you know, I mean, like you I shared some cooking stuff. If my dog got skunked, there's this crazy. BBC sports broadcaster did a series of videos about his two crazy dogs, Olive and Mabel.

 

Pat Perdue  25:11

I watched that.  I kid you not.  I also have discovered it.  It's hilarious. 

 

President David Agnew  25:16

It's totally hilarious. And so it was meant to be kind of human, you know, light, a bit of humor and just keeping in touch.  And I stopped it over the summer, and just did one the other day where I shared my gravy recipe for, in advance of thanksgiving. But, you know, two things about that one was one of the early emails I had back, and this was actually the best part of those emails was the emails, I got back from people saying, Gosh, you know, President I didn't realize you are a human being. And you know, how, you know, had that kind of normal life like the rest of us, yeah, you to miss your barber, you know, you to have your dog run into the back end of a skunk. And, but then I also got these wonderful emails telling stories, about their personal situations. You know.  So it was just, it was a very, for me, it was just a great way to, in a sense, where I won't even say reconnect, but to connect with our employees in a different way than I ever have before. I have personal relationships with some of the employees where I see a lot, of course, but you know, never with, you know, an opportunity to kind of talk that way with everybody. And I really enjoy that.  I'm not doing them every Friday now. But every so often I'll be moved to do one and just try to stay in touch at a human level.

 

Pat Perdue  26:40

Sounds great. Is that something that you're going to keep even post COVID-19? Is something that's sort of become part of your ritual? 

 

President David Agnew  26:49

Now, I think, yeah, I think it will, because I think I mean, that's, especially if we remain in this, you know, sort of more virtual world, which I am absolutely 100% convinced we will. And that's why, and we're going to we're going to array ourselves accordingly. That I think that the people will be working more remotely, working remotely more. And studying, teaching and learning remotely more. Doesn't mean they're not going to come to the campus and so on. But it will be a different kind of experience. And so yeah, I think and I think one of the challenges for all of us is to keep up that level of engagement with each other.

 

Pat Perdue  27:30

I think so, and discover new ways where we can find, as you did with your email, where we can discover, using our technology and our remoteness, new ways of even deepening those connections.

 

President David Agnew  27:44

Well, and one of the interesting bits of feedback, which we've taken to heart, and trying to move on as fast as we can, that when we did the consultation on the large was around communications and people saying, you know, I know, yeah, of course, you have to send long memos and big emails and so on. But you know, what? Videos are really great way. And I mean, I don't even have Tik tok but you know, I mean,

 

Pat Perdue  28:07

I would love to see you on tick tock, I think there's a huge percentage of the student population that would pay good money to see you on Tik tok. 

 

President David Agnew  28:14

But you know, we've known this for some time people communicate differently, younger generations communicate differently. So yes, we have a big social media. In fact, I'm very proud to say Seneca, it has the number one Instagram account of all colleges in Ontario.  So we know that, but we don't, we don't use it necessarily as a vehicle for, you know, my communications or, and so on. So to try to get more kind of video on that.  At least that gives us you know, as we become used to… It's not the same, but to see someone is different from having a phone call. 

 

Pat Perdue  28:47

Very true. So we're wrapping up, you know, we're coming to the end of our conversation. So if there's a thought or, or a message that you would like to leave our listeners with, what might that be? 

 

President David Agnew  28:57

Well, I mean, like I was, I was reading about this the other day. I try not to sugarcoat the current realities.  And, I don't even have to deliver that news. Just look at what's going on around us these, you know, we're not we're not at the right point in this pandemic. But I repeat, we are making progress. We're, you know, we're one day closer today than we were yesterday to discovering that vaccine that will be so helpful to us all. So I just have to counsel, and people have shown it already, you know, more resilience, more patience, more understanding, please, we're, you know.  But what I'm very, very genuinely excited about is that we are going to come out of this thriving and stronger. That's to me, the future is very exciting.

 

Pat Perdue  29:51

President David Agnew once again, thank you so much for setting aside this time today to join us on the podcast. It's been a great conversation,

 

President David Agnew  29:59

As always a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

 

Pat Perdue  30:02

And that was my conversation with Seneca College President David Agnew, lots and lots of exciting changes happening at Seneca College. And it was so funny that he mentioned Olive and Mabel, the two YouTube Labradors. I don't know if you've seen them before. Basically, it's a BBC sports commentator, who lost his job as a result of COVID-19 because there were no more sports to commentate. So, he decided to commentate on the antics of his two Labradors. The videos are super funny, especially if you love dogs. I'll leave their YouTube link in the show notes. And I'm going to ask you the same question that I asked President Agnew.  This pandemic has challenged us in a lot of surprising ways. What do you find yourself either discovering, or rediscovering as a result of this pandemic?  And a huge thank you to President David Agnew, for joining us. And thank you for listening. If you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to SenecaProud. It's available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, I'm Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca.