#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hi, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to Season Three of the Seneca Proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto. 

These days because of the global pandemic, yep, that's still a thing. So, much of Seneca is remote from working to teaching to studying. But hey, Seneca College has always been more than a place or a bunch of buildings. Seneca College is an idea. It's a vision for a better future. And it's a challenge to do what it takes to transform that vision into reality. And that is exactly what Season Three is all about. Seneca College is transforming, there are really exciting changes in the works. And this season, we get to take a close look at some of those changes, as well as the people who are helping make those changes happen. So, if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and join me as we discover the changes and meet the people who are transforming vision into reality. Because the next episode of Seneca Proud starts now.  

Hey, welcome back to Seneca Proud I'm Pat Perdue. And as always, I'm glad you're joining us today, I got a question for you. During this pandemic stuff. You might be listening to this in your apartment, that you only leave to go grocery shopping every couple of days. Or maybe you're an international student and you were hoping to spend time in Canada as part of your Seneca experience. But you find yourself having to watch courses online, separated from your classmates whom you probably know only through social media and attending your online classes, which isn't what you had in mind. Truth is, even though on the surface, it might not seem like it these days are hard. I want you to acknowledge that and congratulate yourself on getting through another day. And bonus marks, it you found a way to make it a good day in spite of everything. 

This is definitely a good day for me, because I get to hang out with you and to share a really interesting conversation that I had with Seneca College professor Carolyn Grammer. I'll tell you about Carolyn in a sec. But first, let me set the scene for you. It's no secret that this pandemic has impacted different people differently. While some people are experiencing the pandemic in a comfortable home, with a separate room away from distractions where you can take your Zoom calls or do your classes. For others, having a reliable internet connection is a big deal. But what about the elderly, providing even adequate care to that vulnerable segment of the population has often fallen short, even in the best of times. But during COVID It's worse than ever. The vast majority of COVID deaths are from our senior community. And conditions in seniors' residences are often quite frankly, horrible. And what makes it worse is that social workers can't even make personal wellness visits. So, they have to figure out a way to set up video calls, which creates even more challenges to providing good care. And what about care for the social workers? It's a pretty horrible story actually. 

But there are areas of hope. And a big part of that hope is our guest today. Carolyn Grammer has been a professor at Seneca College for over 15 years. And through her work in the social service workers Gerontology program. Carolyn has trained legions of social workers who provide social work services specifically to seniors. In addition to inspiring many in Canada and globally in how to improve the care seniors receive, Carolyn has dedicated her professional life to helping the most vulnerable. Here's a brief rundown. Prior to Seneca College, Carolyn worked in a variety of group home settings starting with terminally ill children as a support person, adults with dual disorders as a caseworker in Toronto, and adults with intellectual and developmental delays in the Vancouver lower mainland. She became a teaching assistant for at risk youth in Richmond, BC and ultimately began working in the downtown East side of Vancouver, helping people with HIV, drug addictions, youth suffering from HIV AIDS, and eventually transitioning to palliative care supporting patients dying of AIDS. This was in the 90s and there was really heavy stigma and fear associated with HIV AIDS and very little formalized help. Carolyn worked with the underground Cannabis Network to provide pain relief for patients and clients because cause cannabis was the only method that worked. 

She transitioned from clients with AIDS to older adults who remained invisible in institutional settings and began her work to raise awareness and develop palliative care programs in long term care homes in Vancouver. She returned to Toronto and worked briefly as a caseworker on a national telephone crisis line before entering Seneca College to teach and hopefully change the system from within. Carolyn is also, a practicing psychotherapist. And when she has the time, she circulates through the senior support services agencies and seniors' community centers in the city to talk and teach older adults about safe sex and sexuality in older adults. The toy box is a favorite among the crowd. Pre COVID this was a very popular workshop for both the older adults and continues to be a favourite class for students in the SSWG program. She has been a Jarrow technology consultant, one of Canada's few, for the past 25 years, and engages with global think tanks on how technology can allow for aging in place. She designs and implements studies to test industry technology with older adults and run clinical trials on medical grade technology that assists older adults in maintaining or improving their mobility and independence. Most recently, Carolyn has been leading Seneca’s social service workers Gerontology program in participating in a massive city-wide study on digital access in Toronto and the underserved. Of course, Carolyn and her research team are focusing on the Seniors community.

I'm honored to present to you my conversation with Carolyn Grammer. And we begin with a focus on that city wide study. Here's Carolyn.

 

Caroline Grammer  06:24

The City of Toronto as a result of COVID and the isolation protocols and legislation, the City of Toronto recognizes that there were neighborhoods in the city where there were people who were underserved by the digital network, they had no access to the network, the internet. And a big study was started with all of the higher education institutions. Ryerson is involved, U of T’s involved, York University is involved, and Seneca is now involved. Humber is helping us. They've been amazing in terms of connecting us with the west side and Seneca. Our piece is in the SWG department Gero technology it's about digital access. That's my wheelhouse. And I also, knew that our students couldn't go into placement and our field is the front line of COVID. We're in the long-term care homes, in the retirement homes, in the hospitals in the community, and we're one to one or in small groups with older adults. So, they had to be remote. And we felt that they could be remote. And that seniors needed that remote virtual access; those who had it. So, I realized I could take on a number of students from my research, who could learn how to do research as research assistants, I knew it would be tough, I've done it before. I know it's hard on them because the learning curve is high and the time is short. But these students were amazing, really hard working all of them. Three quarters of them work the front line in their personal lives, they're in the front line, they're in the thick of it. So, their experiences, and their insights were critical, a critical component to building the methodology in this project. And they've worked so, hard, and they're still working, recruiting and interviewing and training seniors. 

So, our part is every age cohort was being covered in some twice over. And yet again, nobody was covering older adults. I looked at the study and said nobody's covering them off. And these are the people that are the most isolated, with the least number of resources, and the least ability to use digital access because they don't have the training. So, I stepped in and said we, myself and my team, will identify all of the seniors, as many as we can in the six boroughs of Toronto, as to who has and who is without digital access. And we will report that to you and what we're going to do about it. 

Well, that turned into a study where it's not just about internet access, we very quickly found out internet access has to be high speed, 50 Mbps or more, that they have to have a device to access the internet, which was often a critical issue. They have to know how to use that device, they have to know how to navigate the Internet. So, that required digital fluency and training. And many of our older adults and long-term care needed one to one facilitation, as we've seen on the news, they had to have somebody there to operate the device for them because they can't do it themselves. There's a sensory or cognitive impairment or functional impairment. And they couldn't connect with their families themselves. They had to have staff there. So, we expanded the concept of what digital access means to include all those variables. And this project is trying to identify the seniors. So, we're actively recruiting still, we're also, interviewing not only senior’s experiences who are without internet, but we're interviewing families' experiences. I'm trying to connect the student with older adults without internet. And the students are also, reaching out to health care workers on the front line. And what's their experience of having the pressure of having to be there to facilitate the process of the internet connection between families and the older adults. 

And we're also, running the online survey for the frontline workers to basically say, how much work are you doing here? How many of your seniors don't have internet access? Or don't know how to use it? And how much difference would it make to you working with them to have that access? So, it's a big project, huge, and we just presented our deputation in front of the executive committee at Toronto City Council. And they're really interested and in fact, have started. They funded all the TCHC buildings, and in particular locations, they are all now free Wi Fi access, but there's still the older adults; there's the tablet issues and you know, the device issues, but we're getting there. So, change actually happened. These nine students, before I went to the do the deputation, I said what do you want the executive committee to know? First of all, they had to know what City Council was. Many of these students are international students, and they're helping our seniors in Toronto, if you can imagine. They're our people. And they're international students. And they're pushing and advocating for our own elders. But I said, what do you want me to tell them? Because these are the people who can make the change, they pass the budget, they decide the funding, what do you want them to hear? So, they did, which was exciting to see that they had an opinion. And they gave it to me, and they said, this is what we're finding with the study and our interviews with our seniors. And this is what we want the council to hear. So, I added that to the deputation. And then I went there and spoke. And I think it made an impact because Mayor Tory, let me speak longer than I was allowed to.

 

Pat Perdue  11:58

That's amazing. And there's a couple of great things. One is you're already starting to see the impact of your work. And two, what a great story for the international students that get to have such an impact here in Canada that they can take with them for the rest of their lives and their careers, as they continue to impact change, wherever it happens to be in the world.

 

Caroline Grammer  12:25

That's my hope that they take it back. I mean, right now, some of our students are already in the training stage, because we're offering six free one hour one to one sessions, over the telephone and online with all the older adult participants. And they're doing casework. They're having to find them free devices, and connect them up to free internet. So, there's a whole resource finding piece there. And then they're learning how to train older adults on these devices. And I'm hoping that they take that back to their country, and train their older adults, and do the same thing. And it's very exciting. We've heard other regions have heard about the project, particularly with respect to seniors and want to duplicate it. So, there's a possibility of this ongoing program within the social service worker, immigrant and refugee program (SWG) department and outside. We have somebody from the WR department and I've opened it up to whomever wants to do the training and the ongoing intergenerational training of these devices and navigating the internet. 

 

Pat Perdue  13:32

Sounds super exciting. And it sounds like your students have really stepped up to that challenge.

 

Caroline Grammer 13:38

Oh, they have, I think they were in tears by December. And then they were telling me this is so much; we're doing so much work. And then by the end of December, and now in January, they're seeing the fruits of their labor, and now they're training new students. And they know how long it takes for these new students to get up to speed and all the training and orientation they have to do and how hard it is. But there they really feel like that's been their report anyways, that they're doing something and it's, making a difference. And they're putting up with me.

 

Pat Perdue  14:14

Which I'm sure is not hard to do. With all of that going on, walk me through a day in the life of Carolyn Grammer. Now that it's COVID.

 

Caroline Grammer 14:30

So, one of the things I've been doing during COVID is I actually schedule a lot of meetings for nine o'clock or eight o'clock in the morning to force myself to get up. So, that's a big thing. It is making sure I'm still getting up at a time that's sort of normal or pre COVID normal, because I don't want to be sleeping away the day and of course, then all sorts of other problems happen if I'm sleeping away the day. So, I schedule and I encourage my students to do the same. Make sure you're getting up, force yourself to get up with a reason. And then from there, usually I'm either teaching Mondays through Friday; Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, this semester, I'm working with my research students. So, that's probably an 8–10-hour day of what we're doing right now with our study. And I'm the mentor for the Field Supervisor for the students as they work remote, and they've got a team of nine. Plus, I've got a MSW student from York University that's a remote field placement with me as well. And then Thursdays and Fridays, I'm back-to-back lecturing. 

And then of course, there's the grading and there's the meeting with students as often as I can. And the student meetings, these days are much longer. Usually, we have sort of a pre COVID West Wing attitude where I would be walking and this group of students would be following me to wherever I was going next and asking me questions and talking as we're walking, it was very, very much that West Wing feel to it. And you had to kind of run to keep up with me, there was no organized meeting me at that time. Mostly there was no organized, we’ll meet me at this day, at this time, it was more like catch her while you can, which worked organically in that setting. But of course, remotely, that doesn't work. So, I'm finding I'm actually spending more quality time with students who seem to need just to be in contact with us as faculty, just to feel connected. And that takes up a lot of the day. Meeting students meeting my partnerships outside in the community trying to support the alumni and the current students who are working the front line and in COVID, which is really another thing altogether. And I have my private practice. They’re starting to see an increase of frontline workers who are coming for trauma, because they've been experiencing secondary and vicarious trauma through this process. And then I have my two kids that some way or as a hobby I raise, I occasionally feed.

 

Pat Perdue  17:07

So, you're busy. In other words, you're super busy. And one of the things that struck me so, much after looking at your biography was how there's a very clear line to your career. You know, it sounds like really from the earliest days you have chosen to work with people who are either dying, or otherwise in some way marginalized as a result of their health or some sort of situation like that. Is that an accurate statement?

 

Caroline Grammer  17:40

Absolutely. I guess, you know, I was really one of the lucky people, as far back as I can remember. And my parents would tell me, even at six years old, five years old, I remember visiting my grandmother in a long-term care facility, my mother was having to visit her daily because even then the care was not the best. And she was always worried that she wouldn't get to eat, or she was alone. And I would go with her. And I remember distinctly images of me jumping onto her hospital bed, and she was paralyzed on half her body, So, her face would droop on one side. And I would pull the blanket up and tuck her in and kiss her and I would be pushing one side of her face up, because she was smiling on the other side, and I just remember brushing your hair and wanting to take care of her. And as I grew, thinking I never want another older adult to go through what my grandmother went through. And I never want a caregiver to go through what my mother went through. So, there was this distinct kind of maybe it's a personality, destiny, whatever, where I really just wanted to help people out and wanted to be a sort of an advocate. I mean, aggressively, I didn't want this to happen to anybody else. And that was very early on. So, I had my purpose, which really made me a lucky person, because I always knew kind of where I wanted to be. I mean, I thought I'd be in medicine, but I went a different route, because I could see I could make more of a difference with what I'm in now than the medical route. So, but yeah, I mean, I think I've always had that calling, if you want to name it.

 

Pat Perdue  19:18

And it comes through and for people who are listening to this, either students, staff or faculty who themselves may hear a calling may not be sure about it. What kind of guidance might you have for somebody who's considering a calling?  Was there ever a time when you resisted it and thought perhaps, you know, you'll go into law or you'll do something else? Did that ever cross your mind?

 

Caroline Grammer  19:45

I mean, it still does. People ask me what do you want to be when you grow up? I'm still trying to figure it out, I mean, I'm in the general milieu of where I want to be. I'm in the field and I am in some way making a difference and I have clear meaning in my life and clear sense of purpose but I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. And my advice is to explore everything, especially when you're a young student, don't feel sad in something, if it's not working for you, if it doesn't feel like it fits, and you have the luxury of saying, you know, this isn't for me. Move to something else. I also, understand, I'm keenly aware that many of our students don't have that luxury, I come from a great deal of privilege. So, I had the luxury of exploring and trying to figure things out along the way. And I think if you start to look at my bio, which I probably gave you, it not even half of what I did, there were a lot of jobs I had in between. And I would have to say in terms of careers, there's probably been five or six different full careers that I've been in, where I thought, okay, this is where I'm going to stay. And I didn't look for Seneca to be a professor, I fell into it. There was never this concept ever, that I was going to be a teacher and instructor. I mean, I enjoyed teaching. And there were things that I did, teaching, swimming, or whatever with kids. And, but there was never a concept that I want to be an instructor, I want to teach people. What there was me being in the field for as long as I was in it and not happy with what my peers were doing in the field, and saying, this is status quo, and I've got to change it. And the only way to do this is to go into the education system, and change it from within, it wasn't working to change, it was just too slow to change one place at a time, one group at a time. But I fell into this, you know, and I think what I would advise people to do is jump, take the leap.

 

Pat Perdue  21:37

Great advice. And if that leap doesn't work, you can climb the hill and jump somewhere else.

 

Caroline Grammer  21:41

Yeah, I'm here to say follow your dream, if you know what that is. But if your dream dies, like mine did with medical school, find another dream. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off. That doesn't mean you can't help people.

 

Pat Perdue  21:56

And your brand, your version of helping sounds like you're also, very much an agent of change. There's a little bit of a disruptive element to something that calls you. Would that also, be correct?

 

Caroline Grammer  22:10

Yeah, you could call me a subversive. I mean, I was part of the underground network when cannabis was illegal, because I believe that medical cannabis needed to be legalized. And there was a whole aboveboard lobby group lobbying for it, but we knew that was going to take 15 to 20 years, which by the way it did. And meanwhile, my patients were dying in pain and I had to deal with the now. So, you know, as a social worker, it's up to you whether you want to break the law or not. And there are consequences to it. But there were a number of us that were prepared to pay for that consequence. Because the end was so much more important than the process.

 

Pat Perdue  22:48

And bringing us to modern day with COVID-19, we hear sometimes in the news about how some seniors are being treated or the kind of care that they're experiencing in Seniors residences, is that something that you're involving yourself heavily in? It sounds like it would be right in your bailiwick.

 

Caroline Grammer   23:10

Oh, happened for the last 25-30 years. This is not news for my group. We know this, we warn the students who come into our program, they're going to see the ugly, and we want them to be prepared for that, that it's ugly. It's unbelievable. It's inconceivable. And yet it's out there. And it's been out there since I was a little child, and very little changed. And it's not a big surprise. But it's a tragedy. And it's enraging. Now I'm at a state of rage because it doesn't have to be this way. And it should never have had to be this way. And I'm also, in a place of hope, because I know that I've been with Seneca for over 15 years, and there's hundreds and hundreds of students that have graduated that are out there and they are genuinely making the change. They're fighting for the change. And I know they are.

 

Pat Perdue  24:00

Is change being hastened because there's perhaps now a brighter light being shone on the conditions of seniors' care as a result of COVID?

 

Caroline Grammer   24:13

I would say there's more awareness. I think if you stop listening, and you start looking to see what's the legislation saying? And what's actually happening on the ground. I would say there's notmuch change, if any.

 

Pat Perdue  24:26

So, in spite of the public awareness, there's no change. Is there even a sense that increased public awareness will drive change or not so, much?

 

Caroline Grammer   24:38

I'm hoping it does. I mean, I know that there are a number of strong advocacy groups like CARP that are pushing for the change. So, you know, cross our fingers. We were so, upset. It came to COVID to what my colleague and I are calling stage, shut and sanction genocide, which really, it's global genocide. It’s particularly profound in Canada, especially in Ontario, given the laws that legislation that dates back, you know, 20 years ago, from Mike Harris’s government, things changed then, and they haven't changed since. And now we're seeing because of this crisis, we've cracked open the shell. So, we can see what's really going on. Its gross, understaffing, poorly paid frontline workers, long hours, not enough support in the community, not enough funding in either the community or the long-term care system. I mean, we have a difficult time because I have students in placement in for profit places, which is great, helping to change it from the inside. But I also, know that I believe human care should never be for profit. So, it's a very difficult place to sit. It's highly paradoxical, and it's uncomfortable.

 

Pat Perdue  25:57

And what can folks who are listening to this and me too, what can we do to make a difference? Is it a matter of contacting our Member of Parliament? Is it a matter of having conversations around the dining room table? What can we do to make a difference?

 

Caroline Grammer   26:12

I think it starts at your dining room table to start talking about ageism. And talking about things like your advanced directives, what you would want to do, what you parents want. Talk about how do they want to be cared for should they be unable to care for themselves. Very detailed powers of attorneys, those are the talks that you want to have. But we already know seniors, the last place seniors ever want to be, is in a long-term care home. There's no news there. They want to stay in their own homes as long as they can. And I think part of this is writing your MP. Part of this is somehow pressuring the government to put more funding into long term care and changing the long-term care system. I don't think the system's broken, that would imply that it's fixable. This system is impossible, we have to start differently. I don't want to fix this system. This system should be trashed, and we should start again. And that takes a long time and a lot of courage. And it takes a different kind of politics, I guess.

 

Pat Perdue  27:18

I'm just absorbing that. And it sounds like if there's a first step that someone can take to begin a positive conversation around what a long-term care facility can look like 10 years from now, what would that first step be?

 

Caroline Grammer   27:37

I'd like to see people talk more about group home settings, smaller settings, instead of warehouse settings, having more support in the community. So, somebody doesn't have to go into what's considered basically a hospitalized setting; long term care where it has keeping people in their homes longer, which has a lot to do with technology and modifications, technological and physical modifications of the home. I think that people can reach out to seniors who are in long term care facilities become a buddy. I'd like to see the school boards in their high school programs, have more intergenerational programming with seniors, either who are isolated in the community, or with seniors and long-term care homes. There's lots of intergenerational activities that are really positive and hopeful. And both the adolescents and the older adults really enjoy that connection.  I think there's one out in the west, and there's a knitting program that's intergenerational. Now, I don't know if it's gone virtual. But older adults were teaching at risk youth how to knit and it was fantastic. They loved it, the youth loved it, the older adults loved it. And this is an art form that is now being passed on to the next generation, and strategy for coping. So, I think we also, have to recognize and value our older adults, as our caches of wisdom and knowledge and not to see them as a burden and as a cost.

 

Pat Perdue  29:08

And we've lost I think, not to get too philosophical, but we've lost the sense of elders in our community. And because, you know, we can Google, the cumulatively acquired sum total of our world's factual knowledge. It's an amazing ability that we have through technology, but perhaps the human interpretation of that, we lose.

 

Caroline Grammer   29:31

It's that indigenous or Aboriginal storytelling, it's the narrative we're losing. We can look at the facts. We can be trained on a YouTube video, but you're right, it's that human interaction. It's that narrative, that experience that's being lost.

 

Pat Perdue  29:44

And speaking of technology, I'd like to circle back to something that you mentioned about the role of technology to help facilitate perhaps people staying in their home longer or forever. What do you see as change now, to help fulfill that goal?

 

Caroline Grammer   30:03

Technology has come along so, far in so, many ways. I mean, I remember I was taking a course at SFU on gerotechnology, and home modifications. And this was 25 years ago, like this was a long time ago, where we're drawing on a whiteboard, what maybe conceptionally, we could have somehow a computer, somehow figure out and sense a person, and it would be somehow responsive. And this was on paper and pen. And look at where we are now with tablets and with interactive home assist programs, and with phones, smartphones and smart homes, and there's so, much that can be done. So, there's many ways that we're there. We're actually where I can't believe we're there. I mean, I remember when we had bracelets that have GPS locators, so, that older adults with cognitive impairments can be found or don't get lost in winter and die from exposure. I mean, there's just so, many ways where we can keep people in their homes for a longer period of time. And there's different communities that are starting to build around that. I mean, there's a Dementia Village in Langley, BC right now, it's the first in Canada where the whole community is built and fenced in, but it's a large community, where people who have cognitive impairments, they live there, and they can go to the local barber shop and get a haircut. They don't need money, they can pretend pay, they can forget to pay, it doesn't matter. They can go to the local pub and get a pint. And they don't have to pay for it. They have these in Europe, too. They can wander the streets, at some point, there's a fence, they can't get further than the fence. But there's usually a forest or something before that. And they all have GPS locators. They can go shopping, and they're not stealing something if they don’t pay. It just doesn't matter, take it off the shelf, put it in your shopping bag, pay with real money, pay with Monopoly money, don't pay at all, it doesn't matter. And they're not as restrained and they don't have the issues of being in a real environment where if they did that they would be stealing or they would be not paying for something and then there'd be a conflict. They don't have that. And it's a wonderful environment. It just opened up this year.

 

Pat Perdue  32:17

Do you know if there are plans for more? Or is it still in the experimental stage?

 

Caroline Grammer   32:21

Like I said, in Europe, they have these communities right now. And this is the first one in Langley BC and it started about four or five years ago. So, the concept of a Dementiaville, which I like them to change the name, but the concept of a Dementia Village has been around for about 15 years and has actually been in place in Europe and in the Netherlands and Norway, I think and Denmark for some time. But this is the first one in Canada.

 

Pat Perdue  32:47

Fascinating. And it makes so, much sense right, makes a tonne of sense.

 

Caroline Grammer  32:52

We’re very hopeful. You’re asking what else can be done. And I'm saying it's not a broken system. It's a different system. Let's change it. And this is one of the ways these Dementia Village that in gerotechnology are some of the ways in which we can make effective change that works better.

 

Pat Perdue  33:13

That is awesome. I love that idea So, much. That is so, cool. And thinking about driving change, and your trajectory of creating change. Now you're working with students changing the system from within. What are some of the wins that you see, or maybe you see through your students that give you more reasons to hope for an improved future for geriatric care?

 

Caroline Grammer   33:40

So, I've been teaching at Seneca for over 15 years. I can see the students who have graduated, and the alumni who are now directors of programs, are managers or administrators of long-term care facilities. And they're starting to implement these models that we've taught them in the program. And they're fighting for them. I tell my students every year you're my army, you're the soldiers, you're the warriors going out there go fight, and they do, and they understand it takes a long time. And you've just got to be resolute and resilient and keep going and they do and they fight and most times, they win. Sometimes they lose, but they continue. And we help them. I'm still in contact with many, many students that are now alumni and working out in the field and are my colleagues. In fact, we have some of them as professors now at Seneca carrying the torch, so, to speak. And we do see it in individualized situations like in this long-term care home there's an administrator who's pushing for Montessori or Eden alternative methods. And in that program in the community, there's six directors who are all SWG, grads in this particular agency that are moving towards these alternate Native approaches that are better working instead of the medical model approach. So, it's there, I'm seeing it. And I'm thrilled. And I'm thrilled every time somebody graduates. Because I know that's one more soldier in the field. These are my warriors.

 

Pat Perdue  35:15

Sounds like you're creating a legion not only of warriors, but truthfully, a legion of heroes who are fighting so, many battles on so, many fronts to make a difference.

 

Caroline Grammer   35:27

Every one of them is a hero to me. I open doors, but they do the war.

 

Pat Perdue  35:32

It sounds exhausting. How do they keep getting up? As you mentioned earlier, in our conversation, getting up with purpose, how do they keep getting up every day and fighting all those fights?

 

Caroline Grammer   35:43

And I have the same feeling at times, it's like banging your head against the wall. But I also, say it's the little wins, take the little wins, they add to something more. And I also, say no significant authentic change happens overnight. It takes years. But if you're resolute, and you're focused, and you have strategies, and you're resilient, change will happen. And slowly, it does take years, I feed them reality, I don't want them going out there thinking they're going to be able to change it overnight. I want them realizing that we're in enough sort of war. And if this is a long war, but it's winnable, and we take the little wins wherever we can find them.

 

Pat Perdue  36:26

What an awesome message. And I think that can be transferred to many other areas where people find injustices and are fighting those types of battles is change can take a long time. And take the wins.

 

Caroline Grammer   36:41

Yep, take every one wherever you find them however small they are. And we do we celebrate the wins.

 

Pat Perdue  36:46

Speaking of taking wins, this pandemic time, we're approaching a year, you and I are recording this conversation on Groundhog Day. And there's been an ongoing joke that it's been like Groundhog Day for the last, you know, 345 days. So, how have you responded to this isolation and this cause for resetting or reconfiguring our day-to-day motivations in our day-to-day rituals.

 

Caroline Grammer   37:16

I think for me, I'm a terrible example. Because my inner hermit is coming out, I had no idea I had an inner hermit, but there it is, in a way, I'm loving it. Because I'm not torn in 20 different directions like I would be if I was on campus, and I was in the world, and this person wants to meet me, and that person wants to see me and I've got this project that I have to do. And I have to meet with that person to advocate for this. And I was torn in so, many directions. And my day was much longer. And I would be far more tired at the end of that day than this kind of a day where I happen to enjoy my home and I happen to you enjoy the person living in it. And the two bunnies that at times drive me crazy, but in a way that all pets do. So, my inner hermit's coming out and I think I'm not sure if that speaks to resiliency. I think it starts with I wake up every day with purpose. I envision before I even get out of bed.  I visualize what is my day going to be like and what's my purpose today? What's the plan? And what's my purpose? Why am I getting out of bed? And from there, I just hit the ground running with a cup of coffee or three, but hit the ground running. And I have a to do list always, and I teach the students this is how to organize your time, I have a to do list, I have PostIt notes all over the place. I'm drawing on my wall because I don't have a whiteboard. You know, that's that helps me. 

In terms of downtime, it's a little more difficult. I struggle with the exercise. And as we mentioned earlier, my breakfast of champions, wine and gummy bears and sour candies, you know. So, I struggle with those pieces in terms of my diet and my exercise regime, which I really have to do more of and I'm trying to find ways to motivate myself. And one of the ways I've started doing that is I happen to just have a four-storey home. So, I walk all the way from the bottom all the way to the top. And I do that once every two hours, up and down, up and down. So, something because it's winter, it's hard to get outside now. But in terms of the isolation piece, for me, it’s quieter because there aren't as many people demanding my time and needing my time. So, I think for me, there's a certain sense of quiet that I haven't felt before but overlapped on that is my deep concern for what's happening in the world and what's happening with my students and what's happening with my family and my kids and the lack of socializing and how it's eating away at them, and just trying to find ways for them to be resilient. 

And also, I always use the everything is relative philosophy. In other generations, there were actual wars going on where people were drafted and gone to war, or you were living in a country where there was a war and you were a dominant group hated and had to hide physically. I mean, we're in a different kind of war. It is a global war, but it's not over principles or over property or over the haves and have nots or some kind of philosophy. It's survival, there's a virus out there, and it's killing our elderly. And there's a variant that heaven knows what's going to happen with that. And that and our warriors, our soldiers are untrained, they're frontline health care workers, and they were never trained for warlike conditions. And yet, that's what they're working in. And that resiliency piece really needs to be there, and we can't hug each other and we can't connect in a human way. And that becomes very difficult, because that's usually your fallback when you're looking for a soft place to fall, after a long day, and that's not there. I really feel for, for example, international students who are here alone and living alone,

 

Pat Perdue  41:27

Yes, for many of them, it's their first time away from home, and especially if they're first year and they're stuck in an apartment in a foreign country.

 

Caroline Grammer   41:36

Yeah, they're in a prison. They're in their four by four cell that happens to be comfortable. But they can't touch anybody. They can't go anywhere and make those authentic connections. I mean, we're trying in our program, we're going to have some kind of weekly through SSF, and I would recommend this for all the students but in the SWG program, we've acknowledged the international students have raised the issue of how isolated they're feeling.  We're going to have a buddy system, where we're putting them up with local students who have lived here locally for a long time or all their lives. And we're going to have a weekly coffee or beverage session over Zoom or something where they can just talk to each other and tell stories and connect on a human level So, they still have some kind of a connection. And videos on is optional. But there's something different, there is a difference. I don't know if you've noticed as an instructor, I would very much like to see my students’ expressions while I'm speaking. But I also, recognize that there's their privacy they may not want to turn their video on. And with the broadband, it thins the network when the more videos are showing. I feel a disconnect, because I'm not seeing them and 70 to 80% of our communication is body language. There's a tremendous amount being lost in that exchange, virtually. And can you imagine with students who are isolated here and international, not in their own country, nobody they know, and can't go anywhere. They can't really leave anywhere, and there's nowhere to go anyways, because Toronto being the great city, everything is shut down.

 

Pat Perdue  43:17

Exactly. And for my last question of our conversation, and thank you very much for your generosity today, this has been a really great conversation. I've enjoyed it tremendously.

 

Caroline Grammer   43:29

Oh, well, you're fantastic. Thank you. You're a great host.

 

Pat Perdue  43:33

Well, thank you. And my question, I'm still thinking about those folks who are living in that four-by-four apartment that you referenced, might be 12 feet by 12 feet, and they might share it with two other people you know, and as a cognitive behavioral therapist, what might be your advice to help them get from now to the end of COVID, where we can all hang out again,

 

Caroline Grammer   44:01

In terms of thinking, cognitive behavioral therapy takes thoughts, it focuses more on the thought process, which affects emotions, which then creates behaviors. I think the first thing is I always play a game with myself if something really negative is happening, or I'm having one of those really catastrophic types of thoughts, or negative thinking processes. Over the years, I've had this game of what would be the silver lining? How can I turn this negative thought into a positive and sometimes it's a hard reach.  And sometimes, I have a very dark sense of humor, so, that helps as well with my silver lining, but it's the how do I make this negative into a positive? And I think in terms of surviving, it's the how to what I'm thinking I'm all alone. I'm away from home. I have no friends here. You're not motivated. This is negative spiral thinking. The positive piece is that is this is a new place, I still have the internet, I need to motivate myself to connect to one of my classmates and or let my professors know that I need to connect. And it's up to us. I feel as the instructors, that professors need to create this buddy system among the students, and even among the professors So, that they can connect up with students and have this buddy who checks in with them once a week or twice a week, or however they want to make it and create that social connection and have these opportunities of coffee klatch. Or, oh online or virtual online meetings of students who normally would be meeting in the cafeteria or meeting at Starbucks or something or Tim Hortons. But now they're meeting online, and they're all getting their own bubble tea, or coffee, or whatever it is. And then talking about some sort of subject, I think that's really that negative thinking and trying to think, how do I turn this into a positive? And now how do I act on it? If I want to be connected with people, I might have to actually do the connecting. I'm part of that process. And, that's, I think, the start of changing this feeling of being in a four by four, or 12 by 12 room. and also, getting out getting physically out of that room, nobody's stopping you, you're not in a prison. Get out, go outside, go for a walk, just change your environment. Even if it's just for 30 minutes, just change your environment and you come home changed. So, trying to just get out of your house, find a reason to get out. You don't have to go anywhere, just walk around the block, just breathe in the fresh air.

 

Pat Perdue  46:48

Great advice, not only for students, but I think everyone who finds themselves feeling isolated during these times. Well, Carolyn Grammer, thank you so much for joining us on the Seneca Proud podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you today.

 

Caroline Grammer   47:07

Thanks, Pat. This has been awesome. This has been really fun. Thank you for having me.

 

Pat Perdue  47:11

Thank you. Bye, bye.

And that was my conversation with Carolyn Grammer. And as I like to do, I'm going to ask you, what about this conversation do you expect will linger with you? There's a lot I know. Maybe it's simply a new awareness of the dire living conditions, many of our seniors experience; or maybe the resiliency and resolve that Carolyn brings to her life's work, and that she inspires from the other heroes she teaches and sends out into the world to make a difference. Or maybe it's that she is making a difference and perhaps she's inspired you in some way to consider your own impact? I know that speaking with her definitely inspired me. 

Again, thank you to our guests today, Carolyn Grammer and a special thank you to the incredible social workers out there. And in particular, those who are bringing care to our seniors and fighting to help make their care better. You are heroes, every one of you. And thank you for listening. I always appreciate it. Until next time, I'm Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca.