#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hi, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to season three of the Seneca proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto.  These days because of the global pandemic, yep, that's still a thing, so much of Seneca is remote.  From working, to teaching to studying. But hey, Seneca College has always been more than a place or a bunch of buildings. Seneca College is an idea. It's a vision for a better future. And it's a challenge to do what it takes to transform that vision into reality. And that is exactly what season three is all about. Seneca College is transforming. There are really exciting changes in the works. And this season, we get to take a close look at some of those changes, as well as the people who are helping make those changes happen. So if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and join me as we discover the changes and meet the people are transforming vision into reality. Because the next episode of Seneca proud starts now.  

And welcome back to the Seneca proud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm glad you're here today. So lots of listeners to this podcast are students, of course, and faculty. And we also have listeners who are alumni, former students who are moving forward in their careers. But the thing about that is that the need for education never really goes away. There's a couple of terms that I've recently learned, upskilling and reskilling, that describe either gaining more skills and knowledge about a field you're already working in, or for reskilling, that might mean learning what you need to for a complete change in careers later on in your professional life. Bottom line is that these days, the need to always be learning never really goes away. At that point, a really good option is continuing education, especially if you need very specific skills in a hurry. And for me, I know a few people who are taking advantage of COVID to kind of do a reset, a re-evaluation of their career. Some of them are choosing to pursue something new, and are taking continuing ed to get the skills they need, as well as make some all- important new connections in the industry. So, as you can imagine continuing education at Seneca is super popular. There's over 1000 courses from AI to American Sign Language. The list of options is massive. Some quick facts about Seneca’s continuing education program. In those 1000 Plus courses, there's over 150 programs. There's also around 50,000 registrations per year. And you can get diploma certificates, graduate certificates, and even degrees through continuing ed. You know it makes me tired just describing it. That's a lot of continuing education. And our guest is in charge of all that. It's the Dean of Continuing Education at Seneca, Jeff McCarthy. 

Okay, let me tell you about Jeff. Jeff has spent over 20 years in education in a variety of capacities from teaching to sales to management and higher education administration, until becoming Dean of the Faculty of continuing education at Seneca in 2016. Some recent news regarding Seneca’s continuing education program:  In the fall of 2019, they launched Seneca’s center for Graduate and Professional Studies, and Seneca’s first downtown campus, located in the heart of Toronto's financial district. Jeff regularly participates in Seneca’s United Way and campaign for students drives. Perhaps most notable for the year:  He and Helix director Chris Dudley, who was a guest on last year's SenecaProud podcast, shaved their heads for the United Way, and they raised over $4,000. Jeff is also an active volunteer in his local community, having coached over 32 hockey and soccer teams. Jeff joins us via Zoom from his home, and we began our conversation with Jeff outlining the type of folks who attend continuing education at Seneca and then we dive into what people are taking.  Advanced warning: This episode might just make you want to drop everything you're doing and start a career in interior Decorating or accounting, or software development. There's so many choices. Okay, here's my conversation with the Dean of Continuing Education at Seneca College. Jeff McCarthy.

 

Jeff McCarthy  04:35

Continuing Education at Seneca is fairly significant in terms of looking at the depth and breadth of programming and the amount of enrollments that we get compared to our sister colleges within the provinces, and frankly within the country. The students themselves, on average our student age is about mid 30s. The majority of our students are previously educated, and have some postsecondary experience either completed or partially completed, and many of them are employed. And what they're looking for, the majority of them, what they're looking for is courses and programs that are going to help them advance their career.

 

Pat Perdue  05:07

Interesting. And I find it really neat that the majority of the students are already employed. I know way back in the day, people would say, either, you know, I'm going to go to college or university or I'm gonna go right into work. Do you find that has there been a shift in the nature of who's going to continuing ed over the last, say, 10 years and what they're studying,

 

Jeff McCarthy  05:31

There has been a shift.  I would say some of the most notable shifts are, more than ever, the students are focused and more aware of the types of skills and credentials and competencies that they want to learn in order to enhance their current skill set and advance their careers. So there's no question that a majority of our students are looking at taking courses and programs with us that are going to help them either change the career path, or further the one that they're already in. And the trend has happened over, I'd say that a decade or more is we have less of a student body in continuing education that is taking courses for self-interest purposes. And they're taking them more for career related purposes. So they're, they're aware of what they want and what they need. And it's, for the most part, very much related to their jobs.

 

Pat Perdue  06:16

So does that not really set the bar super high for you to continue to be, you know, up-to-the-minute relevant in terms of providing the skills and the training that people can apply to the jobs that they're looking forward today?

 

Jeff McCarthy  06:30

Yeah, it absolutely does. We need to have and maintain a strong connection with industry, so that we are ensuring that we're offering current relevant up to date programming that reflects what's happening in the labor market. And one of the key ways we do that is through our connection with our part-time faculty. So all of the individuals teaching in continuing education are part time faculty that teach one or maybe two courses a semester with us. These are subject matter experts who work in their field and bring real world examples into the classroom and to our students. And our connection with them also allows us to make sure that we're maintaining really relevant and up-to-date curriculum based on what's happening in the labor markets.

 

Pat Perdue  07:10

Really interesting. And speaking of partnerships with industries and companies, walk me through a little bit of how that relationship with industries and with your corporate partners, informs the content and the course material that you offer.

 

Jeff McCarthy  07:26

Well, as I mentioned earlier, we have a really strong connection with industry through our part-time teachers, because they're working in the field. And then beyond that, we have a lot of connections with industry, through our program advisory committees, and also through formal partnership relationships. So, for example, many of our program areas such as accounting, HR ,are directly connected to organizations that grant professional designations and certificates within those fields. Beyond that, we have partnerships with individual companies in terms of programming that they offer that we partner with them. We have some recent partnerships with Microsoft and Azure in terms of cloud computing. And we've recently signed two partnerships with organizations out of the United States; one is Kotter, who are global specialists in change management. So they offer a lot of leadership training. The other is Franklin Covey, you might be familiar with “The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People.”  We've just signed with Covey.  We're the only institution in Canada that is offering their suite of leadership programming that's going to be open to the public, that's coming up before the end of 2020 and will be expanded into 2021.

 

Pat Perdue  08:35

That's something that I would, seriously I kid you not, I would seriously sign up for it. 

 

Jeff McCarthy  08:39

Yeah, we're really excited about it. And we are on the cusp of having that live on our website and ready to go for registration.

 

Pat Perdue  08:44

That is so exciting. And you know, you mentioned credentials, a lot of people think that if they go to continuing education, they're trading off a potential to get a credential like a certificate. Is that true? Or is that a myth?

 

Jeff McCarthy  08:58

You know, that mindset certainly exists. But I think it depends on where you're taking the programming from in terms of the institution and what they have to offer. When you look at Seneca continuing education, you have a really broad suite of choices. So on the credential side, the true credential side in terms of the way most people think of postsecondary, we do have diplomas, we have graduate certificates, and we have a couple of degrees that you can obtain through us on a part-time basis. However, beyond that, we have a number of certificate workshops and local college certificates that individuals can obtain. So, it comes back to depending on what the individual is looking for. If you want something that's, you know, higher provincially recognized like a diploma, we have that for you. But we also have six-hour workshops that will give you a certificate within a particular area ,say, like leadership or technology.

 

Pat Perdue  09:48

Very interesting. And is there a top five, or a top ten list of super-hot programs right now? 

 

Jeff McCarthy  09:57

Yeah, we, I mean, we've seen some really strong trends in a number of areas: Accounting and technology, computer programming specifically.  Those tend to be our top two areas. And they've been, they've maintained those spots for a number of years now.  Other areas that are quite, have high interest levels is business, human resources, and then health and social services such as Early Childhood Education and Social Service Worker,

 

Pat Perdue  10:20

That's so interesting.  And how closely do you watch the trends? If something's indicates a trend, an upward trend over a couple of semesters or a couple of years, is that something that you're really going to be dialed into? 

 

Jeff McCarthy  10:31

Yeah, I mean, we're tracking that on a semester-by-semester basis. So we have analysis and metrics in terms of how we look at the different courses and programs are performing. Because what that does is, we have to respond to that in terms of the number of sections and the courses that we're offering, as well as the formats that we're offering them in. So we're constantly dialed into seeing what students are registering for, and seeing what trends, and responding to those trends in terms of how we plan and strategize our planning.

 

Pat Perdue  10:57

How cool.  You know, and I think I know that Seneca is very strongly involved in AI, and robotics and some of the cutting edge applications of technology and the Internet and computers. To what extent has that emphasis impacted what happens in the world of continuing ed?

 

Jeff McCarthy  11:18

Well, we've definitely seen an increased demand of that. And in recent years, and collaboration with full time studies and academics at the college, we're offering a number of courses and programs that focus on cybersecurity, FinTech, artificial intelligence, and we have some active relationships right now with Magellan aerospace and other community partners and businesses around upskilling their employees in terms of these types of subject areas. 

 

Pat Perdue  11:41

That sounds super cool. And to what extent do you need to, I'm going to use the word pivot, it's not one of my favorite words, but to what extent do you need to pivot as these interests, I guess, take focus in maintaining or creating new relationships with the industry?  

 

Jeff McCarthy  11:59

That demand and that requirement for us has been there for years, and it's relevant now more than ever, and the nimble nature of a continuing education department is in fact, one of the things I like about it the most.  It does allow us to respond and pivot, frankly, almost on a moment's notice in terms of being able to respond to industry demands and industry needs. And some of the programs that I mentioned just previously around cybersecurity and fintech, those are an example of this, where we can take a single course or a single subject area, and very quickly work with a subject matter expert, and create a course or workshop or whatever the needs might be and offer it in a really short timeframe.

 

Pat Perdue  12:37

And I'm comparing it to a traditional, you know, the three-semester program, and it's gonna last a certain number of months.  To what extent is there variability in the length of courses in order for me to upskill myself?

 

Jeff McCarthy  12:51

I mean, there's a lot of choice. And again, this is a big differentiator for continuing education departments, and specifically for Seneca Continuing Education. Because we just simply have so many options available to students. So if you're interested, any particular course or program, you will have options to take that full sort of traditional semester length type programming, something that's more accelerated, or in a hybrid delivery, and options of that are also going to be you know, it could be a couple of hours, in terms of a workshop. So, there's a lot of flexibility and a lot of different options in terms of what students have available to them and how they want to engage in these courses and programs.

 

Pat Perdue  13:29

We're, you know, we are in this thing called a pandemic. So how has that impacted the course delivery course planning all of it?

 

Jeff McCarthy  13:38

Yes, the pandemic's had a big impact, obviously, on the institution and education in general. But specifically for our department, some of the things that we've seen is a dramatic increase in the level of interest that our students have, and prospective students have in continuing education. So just to just to give you an example, if we looked at the March to June period in 2019, versus the March to June period in 2020, during the pandemic lockdown, the increase in website traffic to our continuing education website, rose over 200%. We went from just under 5 million visits in 2019, to 14 and a half million visits in a three-month period in 2020. So the increase in interest was substantial. And what resulted in that was a very high enrollment summer semester for us. And again, a very high enrollment semester for us this current fall semester. And what we've had to do like other institutions and like Seneca full time, is we've had to deliver anything remotely on a moment's notice. So in both the summer semester and the fall, we're offering over 1000 courses to students. And the main course delivery format is a virtual format where students are coming in and getting about an hour and a half to two hours of live synchronous learning every week. During the remainder of the course, self-directed online, and the increase, and the enrollment in that format, has been very substantial.

 

Pat Perdue  15:08

It's amazing. And you know, for someone who's lived through such an increase in activity and demand, you strike me as very calm. I think I'd be flipping out.

 

Jeff McCarthy  15:20

Well, thank you. I mean, it's maybe I'm putting on a good poker face. I mean, there's no question that myself, my team, our faculty, have been under, you know, really demanding circumstances in order to flip the switch, essentially, back in the spring, and take all of that in-class delivery, and now deliver it in a remote format. But they've responded amazingly well. I mean, the dedication and commitment of both our faculty that teach for us, and the team that works with me, is tremendous. I mean, they are the reasons for our success. And they are the reasons that we've had the success and to move the department forward.

 

Pat Perdue  15:54

Amazing. And that's the beauty of building great teams, right? Is when the surprise happens, everybody just steps up and does what they need to do.

 

Jeff McCarthy  16:04

Yeah, it's been great. It's been great experience, but it hasn't been easy. 

 

Pat Perdue  16:07

Yeah, I can imagine. So, there must have been a lot of learning in terms of how you're solving problems now can be carried through into a post-pandemic world.  Do you have a sense of some new best practices that you might have uncovered here that you will export into that time sometime in the future?

 

Jeff McCarthy  16:24

I think the most notable things that we've noticed, and that we are certain of in a post-pandemic world for our department, is we will have a significant amount of increased flexible offerings for students. So, we know that the demand for virtual learning is not going to go away. Because we've been in this for so long already. And because students have become so much more comfortable, as well as our faculty, with delivering learning experiences through this remote environment, we know that that's not going to go away. So, in a post pandemic world, the upside for our department is that we've created one or more delivery formats that are going to be really significant for us moving forward. And the benefits for the students is that they're just simply going to have a wider range of flexible options as we come out of the pandemic.

 

Pat Perdue  17:15

So if I'm a professional, you know, I'm working at home, my office is closed for the pandemic, and I'm listening to this podcast, what are some questions that I can ask myself to think about whether continuing education is for me, versus maybe more traditional education? And the second part of that question is if Seneca College continuing education is for me?

 

Jeff McCarthy  17:37

I think the one thing that pandemic has forced a lot of us to do, whether we wanted to or not, is a time for reflection; taking a look at what's happening in our personal lives, what's happening in our work lives, and really, sort of, taking stock, especially from an employment perspective and the jobs and the careers that we're working in. How much satisfaction are we truly getting out of them? What's missing? What do I have an interest in? Where would I like to be? And I think as individuals start to reflect on that, they start to think about, okay, what types of continuing or additional education do I need in order to get me where I think I might want to be in the future? And the, you know, some of the questions that I think immediately come out of that is, What's available? Where can I get it? And how is it going to fit into my lifestyle. And one of the things that is, you know, in terms of our department, the flexibility in terms of the format delivery, and even in a pre-pandemic world was quite significant. And as now we're in this pandemic, with our remote delivery options. And as we come out of it with the increased amount of flexibility, I think students are going to have more choice than ever on how they choose to engage with us. And more than ever, we're going to be able to fit and meet the demands of their lifestyles.

 

Pat Perdue  18:48

And do you find that people are coming to Seneca College Continuing Education Program, doing a 180? Like, maybe they've been chefs, and now they want to get into computer programming? Or are they continuing along a pretty predictable trajectory in terms of what they've been doing?

 

Jeff McCarthy  19:07

I think we have students that fall into both of those categories. But in terms of the former, the ones doing the 180 and doing something completely different, we absolutely are hearing from those students, and they're taking a look. And they're asking for advisement in terms of what we have to offer, and what's available to them. What they're looking for, for the most part, is something that is a short-term learning option, right? What if I'm going to do a 180 and try something different and entirely different, where can I get the skills and the learning to do that? And can I do it in a short period of time?

 

Pat Perdue  19:38

So let's talk a little bit about you. How did you find yourself as the Dean of the Faculty of Continuing Education and Training? 

 

Jeff McCarthy  19:45

Sure, well, I've been at the college for just under 12 years. Prior to that I worked in the private sector. I was formerly a teacher. And then I worked in, I worked for an education company that did distance education, and I worked as a sales manager within that company, and part of my experience for that company, I became a member of the Program Advisory Committee for one of the programs in Seneca Business. And so my initial introduction to Seneca was being a program advisory committee member, I have representatives from industry. And with my background and my interest in education, I began to become very interested in the college and what was happening there. And thankfully, was able to transition that into a role in Seneca business as an associate chair with the School of Accounting and Financial Services. And after five years in that role, I was seconded into the Chair of Business and Continuing Ed. And then one thing I found very quickly and Continuing Education was, I was very attracted to the nimble nature and the entrepreneurial and the flexibility of being able to try new things and be able to offer them to students.  And so I never left. And then after a short period of time, as the Chair of the Dean opportunity came up, and I decided, well, you know, these opportunities don't come up very often, so throw my hat in the ring.  And, you know, very pleased to have been in this role for just over four and a half years.

 

Pat Perdue  21:01

And do you find that your experience in distance learning is really just finding, are you finding a real stride in having to retool continuing education, because you have a little bit of that background?

 

Jeff McCarthy  21:18

It I mean, I think my private sector experience, you know, it was really helpful in terms of being able to get a better understanding. And the fact that I worked in education and work for education companies, within the private sector, gave me a bit of an understanding in terms of what's happening within companies, and what they're looking for, for their employees.  And then coming into the education institution and looking at, okay, how can we deliver that in order to meet the needs and demands of what they're looking for?

 

Pat Perdue  21:47

And, and so as we cast our mind into some sort of future that is even more technological than it is perhaps even today, and hopefully a little more COVID-free, what role do you see continuing education playing in that future, and how might it change?

 

Jeff McCarthy  22:03

I think it's going to continue to be very relevant and very much in demand. Because as technology changes at such an accelerated pace, and as the expectations from employers, and the labor market, in general, is for people to be more ready to hit the ground running with the skills they need to succeed within those roles. And in those companies, the majority of the population that's already working, is not going to have the luxury of leaving their current job to re-educate themselves in a full-time manner. So that's where continuing education will play a huge part in the roles of those individuals lives for them to be able to take their learning on a part-time basis. So, I think the demands for continuing education are only going to continue to grow, and that the institutions that are very committed to that, and that are offering current, up to date, and relevant programming are the ones that are going to continue to be successful.

 

Pat Perdue  22:56

And even with this gig economy, or with such rapid changes in so many industries, I think it's less about the paper you've got, and more about the stuff you can do. And the value you can add as an employee. How do you feel about that statement? Would you agree challenge it? What are your thoughts?

 

Jeff McCarthy  23:15

No, I agree. I think it's a fair statement. And if you look back, even within the last couple of years, you've seen some larger companies, international worldwide companies, those such as you know, Google, IBM, etc, publicly stating that they are less focused on the actual credential. And they're more focused on the skills. I mean, I think that credentials will continue to play an important role in terms of people getting recognition and getting certain levels of education they've obtained. But there's no question that companies have been very explicit that what they're really focused on, and what they really want is the skill set that you bring to the table. And that there's probably less of an emphasis on the actual paper that you're bringing, and more of an emphasis on the learning skills and competencies that you bring to the organization.

 

Pat Perdue  24:01

And getting back to you a little bit. You know, we've talked about the students who apply, some of them are doing a 180. Some of them are, it's a little bit of a redirecting, and a lot of that is well recently is a result of their experience in COVID. And I think a lot of us have used this opportunity to do some reflection, and maybe even some redirection or rediscovery. Has that been reflected in your own life and in your own experience with COVID?

 

Jeff McCarthy  24:28

Yeah, it has, there's no question. I mean, if anything, I've, you know, my passion for continuing education, the commitment to lifelong learning, and really trying to grow this department to be further be a best in class. I mean, we are a provincial leader and a national leader by many measures. And I came into a very successful department when I joined it, even as a chair, and we've accomplished some great things in the last four years in my tenure ship as Dean, but when I look forward, I'm very excited about the future and what the possibilities are for this department, and what it offers to students need.

 

Pat Perdue  25:02

So you're not going to quit your job and become a pizza chef? That's what you're saying?

 

Jeff McCarthy  25:05

No, I do love cooking, but we'll keep that on the side for now.

 

Pat Perdue  25:09

Speaking of cooking, have you learned any new skills? We've talked about upskilling a little bit. Have you learned any new things in the last? I'm going to say between March and now?

 

Jeff McCarthy  25:19

Yeah, there's a few things. I mean, my daughter and I have been playing around in the kitchen, they have an interest in cooking. So we've been playing around with some homemade pizza dough recipes. My one daughter is very much into ramen. We've done quite a bit with ramen a bit with homemade sushi. So yeah, we've been dabbling in a couple of different types of dishes and had a lot of fun learning how to do that.

 

Pat Perdue  25:37

Ramen is so great, and homemade pizza dough. I learned personally how to make pizza dough during COVID. And I love making pizza dough. There's something about the yeast and the activity and the, and the stuff. It's just so much fun.

 

Jeff McCarthy  25:52

Yeah, it's been great. They really enjoyed it, as well.

 

Pat Perdue  25:55

Jeff McCarthy, thank you so much for spending this time on the podcast. I know you're super, super busy. You know, being Dean of a faculty that has over 1000 courses. I can't even get my mind around that. So, thank you very, very much for joining the pod today. It's been a pleasure having you on.

 

Jeff McCarthy  26:12

Great. Thanks for having me today I really enjoyed it.

 

Pat Perdue  26:15

It was so great to speak with Jeff and I was particularly focused on how much there is to keep track of.  Sometimes we forget what a huge institution Seneca college is.  One of the largest colleges in Ontario and across Canada. And I kinda like that it's so easy to forget that Seneca doesn't have that big institution feel to it. In spite of its size, people still know each other. They keep in touch and former students come back through Continuing Education and the work of Jeff McCarthy and everyone in the Continuing Education department makes that choice such an easy one, not only from a personal perspective, but a professional perspective as well. So, if you could drop everything and just dive into something new, what skill would you want to learn? 

Okay, thanks to my guest, Jeff McCarthy and thank you for listening. This has been the Seneca Proud podcast. Stay proud Seneca.