#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:01

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to Season Two of the Seneca Proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto. Seneca College is a really great school. And what we uncovered in season one of Seneca Proud is that there's a Seneca spirit. And that comes from the really great people that Seneca attracts. This season we'll be featuring some of those students, staff as well as faculty to not only learn what they do here, but also a little bit about who they are. So, join me on this journey of discovery, as we meet some of the people who make Seneca College, such a special place to teach, work and study. 

Welcome to Seneca Proud Season Two, where I get to introduce you to some of Seneca College's amazing family of staff, faculty and students. So if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and let's go meet some of the super inspiring folks here at Seneca. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm glad you're here today. 

And welcome back to Season Two of the Seneca Proud podcast. This is Season Two, Episode Five and I'm Pat Perdue. That was a lot of words. So welcome back. Season Two of the Seneca Proud podcast is about bringing forward stories not only of the faculty but of students and staff and highlighting their achievements both while at Seneca and outside of Seneca. 

Hey, welcome back to the Seneca proud podcast for January 2020. I hope you had a great new year and are planning to make the coming year and coming decade worthy of everything you have to contribute to the world. But what does it take to find your best self and then put that person out into the world to make a difference? That's a big question. Our guest today Dr. Nafeesa Jalal is an example of a person who has taken on that question in a big way. As you will hear from our conversation, Dr. Jalal who teaches in the Honours Health Care Management program at Seneca College has designed her life so that she is making the best contribution she can in a way that is meaningful to her personally. And let me tell you about Dr. Jalal. In addition to teaching three courses at the Honours Health Care Management program at Seneca, Dr. Jalal founded her own consulting firm that specializes in health research projects that focus on diversity, equity and inclusion known as DEI, as well as have a strong focus on cultural competency. Outside of Seneca her current consulting work with Trillium hospital’s Institute for Better Health is centered on the experience of patients from diverse backgrounds with their breast cancer journey. She is also a certified faculty with the Institute for Health Communication, and works with the William Osler health system to deliver training to health professionals. Trillium and William Osler are two of the largest community hospitals in Canada serving an incredibly diverse population.  With her passion for public health, she is also the host of a TV show. Of course, she is! Health and Wellness with Dr. Nafisa Jalal, recorded in studio in Canada. It's available globally. 

As you'll hear from our conversation, which was recorded just before the holidays, a new season is starting up. Right about now. She is busy. Our conversation begins with Dr. Jalal sharing what makes her courses so inspiring to her students as well as herself. And then we quickly move on to her own inspiring journey. And how in spite of her achievements, success, particularly academic success hasn't always been something that comes easy. So how does she do it? You'll find out right now, here's my conversation with Seneca colleges, honors Health Care Management Program professor, Dr. Nafeesa Jalal.

 

Nafeesa Jalal  03:26

I'm a professor in the Honors Health Care Management program, which is situated in the School of Health Sciences at Seneca. And I teach three courses, I teach a first-year course introduction to the Canadian healthcare system, and it's a fabulous course. I shouldn't have favorites, but it definitely is my favorite of the three that I'm teaching, because it touches on so many of the issues that all of us deal with on a day to day with our health system. And we look at such a variety of how our system came to where it is today, what the future of the system looks like, we look at funding issues and allocations and government pieces and what the general public can do. And I find that it's one that the students have embraced very, very excitedly, I teach a second-year course health care program, Planning and Evaluation. And this, again, is a very technical course. It looks at evaluating healthcare projects; what frameworks do we use? What are the components that we have to think about when we're developing a project, when we're implementing a project when we're evaluating a project. I also teach a third course for the third-year students, Health and Community Development. And as the name implies, we're looking at the connection between a very strong community and how that positively impacts our physical health.

 

Pat Perdue  04:36

Wow, fascinating. All three of those courses sound really, really interesting. 

 

Nafeesa Jalal  04:40

Yeah, it's a fantastic course load. 

 

Pat Perdue  04:43

Absolutely! And you know, what I find particularly neat about that, is that when we think about health sciences or healthcare in general, we think of nursing, we think of going into medicine in some way, but this is almost Healthcare Management.

 

Nafeesa Jalal  04:56

Absolutely. So, what's really unique about this program that made me fall in love with it and be excited to teach it is the fact that you've got the healthcare component and you've got the management component. So as most of us know, whether we're working within the healthcare sector or whether we're outside of IT, health now has become more commercialized. It is more is more of a business than ever before. So again, you run hospitals in the same way that you've run a company, you've got many components, that are the same things. So again, my students not only will go out with a health background, but they'll go out with how the system works. And it's important to be able to know that in order to work effectly. 

 

Pat Perdue  05:33

How fascinating. And is that specific to Ontario's healthcare system? Or is it something that can move from health care system to health care system almost sort of suggesting that there's generalities or transferable processes that can go from system to system?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  05:49

Great question. It depends on the course, a few courses in the program will have the transferability. And a few will be more specific to Ontario. When I look at the Canadian health care system, my first-year course, I'm really looking at all the provinces and all the different territories. While I've got a focus on Ontario, because that's where we're situated. Currently, there's also pieces that I teach that apply to anywhere in the country. And again, with the evaluation course, I'm teaching them how to evaluate projects across the board. So locally, internationally, the global atmosphere is very important for us today, especially in healthcare as well. We have enough courses in the program that I think have a very high level of transferability. It's a lot of work prepping for courses, I find that even though I work in this field, and I have for so many years to teach, it's a very different skill set. Some of the courses are harder to teach than others. But I find that the information is so interesting, and it's something that I'm very passionate about. So that takes out a little bit of the hardness. But definitely, the hours of prep have to go in every single week, no doubt.

 

Pat Perdue  06:54

And what do your students think about it? It seems like you put in a lot of time prepping, you're obviously knowledgeable about the subject matter. And you're excited about it. What are the students’ experience of the courses?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  07:08

This has been my first-year teaching, at Seneca. And I have this year to go by in terms of excitement level, in terms of how engaged they've been. And I have to tell you, I am so impressed with the students, I am so impressed with how committed they've been to the learning process, with how engaged they are with the different subject matter. I'm finding students coming into the room and putting away their cell phones, which as we know, is a thing, right? It's absolutely very impressive. So, every time I see that, and I get their undivided attention because they see the practicality of what we're teaching. They see the examples that I put in and there are real life examples from my work experience, from my life, from things that they interact with day to day. And health is something that all of us are touched by. The healthcare system is not something that perhaps some of us use and others don't, at some point or other everybody does.

 

Pat Perdue  08:03

Right. And I'm thinking they almost have an insider's take or they get an insider's take on how the system actually works. Are they surprised by it? What's their sense of it?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  08:13

I see a lot of surprise in a lot of things that I teach, especially in the first-year course intro to the Canadian healthcare system. And I think a large part of that is because a lot of us while we all use the system don't know how the system works. We don't know why certain policies and programs are in place. We don't know how some things are cared for and some things aren't. We don't know why wait times are so long. We don't know why prescription drugs aren't covered, or certain things are for certain people and not for others, and so forth. We don't know how hospitals run on the inside. While we are all consumers in some way, not all of us have the inside glance since my students to be able to get that glance. They're full of questions. And they're full of being excited about the solution of things. And they're hashing about why is this happening? And this is not right. And how are we going to change it?

 

Pat Perdue  09:01

Absolutely. Share with us some of the other things you’ve got going on? One thing that I found very interesting when you sent me your biography, there's so much going on with you and how you've chosen to craft your life and teaching is just one part of it. If I was going to ask you of all the things that's happening right now in your life, the thing other than teaching, that you're most proud of might be blank. 

 

Nafeesa Jalal  09:30

I think the thing that I'm most proud of is actually a little bit different from each of the pieces of work that I currently do. And it's something that's still fairly fresh to me. Last year, I got my PhD in public health. And I feel like a doctorate degree for anybody is definitely an accomplishment for the hours and years that go into it. But if I were to say one thing that I'm very proud of, and pick the one I think it's because I've never been academically inclined from day one. From as early as I can remember, with school, I was never a book learner. During summer vacations, I was always that student that had extra tutors to help me just pass the next year, not even excel, but just pass. I find that for someone for whom book learning and the academics were not something that came naturally, for me to be able to get through to a PhD level and accomplish that will always continue to be one of my proudest accomplishments. To answer that part of your question, but in terms of other things that I'm doing outside of Seneca that I'm also really proud of, I'm really proud of my consulting firm. And it's something that I've spent years and years planning for and building up into. And it was only last year that I left a full-time work situation and jumped full time. I made the leap, and it's a scary leap.

 

Pat Perdue  10:53

It's a terrifying leap. There, no net really. 

 

Nafeesa Jalal  10:57

There isn’t and people will give you different advice. And they'll say we'll just leave. But for those of us that are very prepared and like to know what's happening with life, it's a hard leap to make until you feel comfortable enough to make it. And when I did this past year, and jumped into my consulting firm, I did it with a lot of hope, and few safety nets put in place, but a lot of aspirations for what could come out of it. I am just so grateful to all of my clients, and the Trillium Health Partners being one of them. And William Osler, as well.  They're fantastic hospitals, and they serve very diverse, very large communities day in and day out. But all of my clients I find have given me the sense of accomplishment that I needed out of this consulting firm.

 

Pat Perdue  11:41

That's great. What a great story. And can I spend some time on your comment about your academic journey and what a great accomplishment, that was you getting your PhD. And congratulations on that! I think a lot of people listening will say, particularly probably your students, “Wait, what?”, you know, because you are so prepared. And is that sense of preparation, sort of part of that academic journey because you find that working hard gets you the results that you need to get?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  12:14

I think you just hit it on the head right there, Pat with why I work as hard as I can. Some of us are academically very inclined. And there are others who have big dreams and aspirations that might be in those fields, but those skills don't come naturally to us. My life experience and I really say that for everyone who's listening, school never came easily to me. So again, I hear people say, well, you've got a PhD and you do all this work in academia, how can school not come naturally to you? And I am proof that if you work hard enough, if you are tenacious, if you are ambitious, if you are passionate, and if you are willing to not give up on your dreams, then you can make it happen. So, for some of us, the road is straight. For some of us, it's a little curvier. And mine has been curvier. But it still gets you to where you need to be. So not all of us who are listening have to be academically inclined in order to make a difference in the world of academics. And I find that every class that I'm teaching, I love being in front of my students, I love being able to impart a lot of practical knowledge. Because for me, academics was about the practical, it wasn't really about the books, it wasn't really about the theories, although I don't discount its importance. It was really about how do I apply it in my world? Give me an example that makes sense to me; something that I can make out of this. I find that when I jumped into teaching, a lot of people asked me why I chose college versus university. And for me, the choice for college was so natural, because I've always been an applied person. In order for me to teach in a program where, of course I've got the academics, we can't go away from the content that the students need to learn. But I do it in an applied way. I do it in a way that I wish someone had done it for me as I had gone through school, because I feel like I would have gotten a lot more out of my experiences that way.

 

Pat Perdue  14:05

And I think the college experience allows somebody like you to come here and say, “this is how I'm learning this material”. This is the life of the material that we're you know, that we're talking about today. To what extent do you draw on your professional experience to inform the subjects that you're teaching here at Seneca?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  14:24

Very, very highly. I love that part about Seneca, that they're trying to attract faculty who actually do this work day in and day out. It's not about us just reading a book and then regurgitating the material to our students. It's about us actually living that life and you put it so accurately it's about those of us that take the book learning and then take the words and go out there into the world and do this work. So, every single chance that I get every single class, I will make sure that I draw upon my life experiences, my experiences of travel, my experiences of working with health institutions, in the hospitals and in the community. Because I find those are the examples that resonate with the students. Those are the pieces where they get to see that I'm in this classroom learning this, because there's applicability outside of and that's the stuff they really want to know. Right?  They want to know that their education here will mean something, as they leave the classroom.

 

Pat Perdue  15:20

Let's talk about when they leave the classroom, because I think your story is very much about what happens when they leave the classroom. You're very accomplished, you could be working 50-60 hour week, you probably work longer than that today. Or a 40-hour week at some Hospital Foundation or something. You've chosen not to do that. You've chosen, to really craft a life of your choosing of your design. Let's spend a little time talking about what drives you to live the road less traveled, so to speak. 

 

Nafeesa Jalal  15:55

I think in a conversation that you and I had earlier, we were talking about the hustle, and I love that word, because I've never really thought about it in that way. But I do love the hustle. There are those of us that are made to work in one place at one time. And I have a lot of respect for them. I just don't think I was built that way; I really feel a lot of energy from the hustle. Every morning when I wake up, and I know that there are pieces of work that I get to do today that are of my choosing, that are things that I am hopefully good at and that I prep for and that I'm passionate about, and that I'm engaged in that hustle makes me come alive. So again, I think when I don't take the road less traveled, I find that I live a more fulfilled life. As I look at the pieces of work that I'm doing right now, I've got to tell you that I've never been busier in my life. Between the College and you know how it is with the teaching and the prep and all the pieces that go into that, and the consulting firm, and the clients and my TV show, which will start again next year, starting next month, I’ve never been this busy. And when you talk about the hours that we work, I can't even keep count of the hours that I'm working. And yet I can tell you full heartedly that I have never been dissatisfied in my career. I have never felt this happy and disengaged and this alive in the work that I'm doing.

 

Pat Perdue  17:27

Wow. And who among us get to say that?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  17:30

Very few! I find a lot of us are stuck in jobs that they may or may not like may or may not be their forte or their expertise. And for those of us that are able to go out there and hustle and create a life of our own; one that we get to design and we get to navigate. And we get to pick the pieces that we really want to work on. I find it's a privilege. And it's a luxury. And it's definitely something I'm so grateful for.

 

Pat Perdue  17:55

Agreed, agreed. And it dives into the whole idea of work, I think, because works feels like drudgery. It feels like work versus you know, if you're living your flow, if you're engaged in the hustle, then you're doing exactly what you want to be doing.

 

Nafeesa Jalal  18:14

Exactly. Every morning that you wake up, you don't dread waking up, because you're going to a job that you don't like. I wake up energized, because everything that I want to do is on my plate. And sometimes it's about finding the hours and trying to balance time in the best way that you can. And I'm still very much struggling with getting everything in with 24 hours. But I find that every hour that I'm spending, you're living your best life, and you're living your most productive life and you do better work, when you actually love what you're doing. You accomplish more when you're engaged and passionate about what the output is.

 

Pat Perdue  18:48

Absolutely. Is this something that you get to touch on with your students?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  18:51

I try and embed that in in all of the courses. Because as they leave the program, I want them to be able to go out there and build their own lives. This program is excellent for all the reasons that we mentioned. You have the health care aspect, you've got the management aspect, you've got the leadership aspect, they get to choose and pick what it is that they really feel most alive about. But I always encourage them to say there are many choices you have out there. So just because you graduate out of a certain program doesn't mean you automatically go into A, B or C, you can go into a B or C if that's what you would like if that's what your calling is. Or you can pick and choose the pieces that you're really good at. So, to encourage them to go into the road less traveled like myself is something that I really encourage.

 

Pat Perdue  19:37

Would you recommend that to someone? Is it for everyone? Is it for a certain type of person? Maybe? What's the self-assessment that you did for yourself to determine that this is the path that's best suited for you?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  19:54

To answer your question. I don't think it's for everyone. I think there are those of us that are very comfortable, with being within an organizational setting with doing the nine to five, with being in one organization for many, many years, I think there's definitely many great aspects that come with that. And then there are those of us like you and I, that love all the different pieces. 

I found that when it came to my self-assessment, it was a couple years ago that I was at work one day, and I looked around, and I said, this really is not making me happy. Sure, I can do the work, and I'm equipped to, and it's become easy enough, and so forth. But it's really not challenging me in the way that I would like to be challenged. So there the seed was planted, for wanting to do something more. And I find that in this day and age, as you look around, there's a lot of people that are self-employed. 

There are a lot of people that are working from anywhere and everywhere in the world. And I would look at their stories, and I would think it would have to be someone else, not me, I would look at people working at a beach in Barcelona and think, lucky them that they can do that. And, you know, lucky all the people who've been able to navigate their chart. And I think it took me a good few years to be able to get my head around the fact that I can do this too. And yes, there's hustle involved and nothing comes easy. Especially when you've got your own consulting firm. We live in a very competitive world where a lot of other people do amazing work as well. It's not just you. So again, for me to get myself around the headspace that yes, I can chart my own course, to actually doing that, I think was a good few years. But now that I've taken that leap, like I said, I feel more accomplished than I ever have. I think it was the right step for me. And I can resonate with the fact that it might not be the right step for everybody. 

 

Pat Perdue  21:47

Sure, of course, of course. And as you look into your future, what do you see yourself leaning toward in terms of the overall accomplishments that are marking your trail?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  21:59

I think there's just so much that I want to accomplish in all the different areas of the work that I'm doing. So currently with my teaching, and this was the first year at Seneca, but I've been teaching for quite a few years in the past as well. And in the university capacity and with different organizations and so forth. I think as far as I can see, in my future, I would love the teaching to be a part of my life, I love the opportunity to be able to give back. I feel like there were so many amazing mentors that I had in my life, from all over the world. And I'd be honored to be that person in somebody else's life. 

I think that the teaching is something that I'm going to take long term. I think with my consulting firm, as I look down the road, there are more and more projects I want to take on that are at a global scale. So again, a lot of my experience in my past has been very global, I have a degree in International Development. I've lived all over the world, from when I was a child, thanks to my dad with a UN career which forced us to be in different countries and then taking on my own career, and then with a PhD from South Africa. I think 5 –10-15 years down the road, I see myself going back to the roots of doing a lot more global work as well. Because the world is connected, and especially the world of health and development and so forth is very, very connected. And it doesn't have to end at the borders of Ontario or Canada.

 

Pat Perdue  23:24

Absolutely. We're getting toward the end of our conversation. I think we could talk for hours and hours. You mentioned mentors. And you mentioned gratitude, as you think of mentors or individuals that you have encountered in your past. Is there anybody that stands out for you that you've perhaps modeled your life on, or has touched you in a way that that fuels the life that you're creating for yourself today?

 

Nafeesa Jalal  23:53

I can think of a number of people, professionally and personally. But the people that I think I would refer to the most right now at this very minute, are going to be personal people. And the first one that I like to mention is my aunt, my mom's older sister. She got married at the age of 13 in Bangladesh, and she had a daughter, and she strived to the highest pursuits of education. She got a master's degree; she went on to make huge contributions. And as I look at her life, and someone who's been a very active part of raising me, I think about what mentorship really is. I think I've used the word tenacious and tenacity earlier already, she's got it. When I look at women like herself and my mother and women who have broken boundaries and borders and left their countries of origin to make a life in other places and accomplished and been successful, I find that those people remain my biggest role models in life. They show me that you can adapt, and you can be successful. And you can be successful in all areas of your life. It doesn't have to be a pick or choose. My biggest sense of accomplishment, I think, comes from having been raised by very, very strong women, men as well. My father was pretty amazing. But definitely the women I think I resonate with because when I think about mentorship, I think about them first and foremost, they were my first teachers in life and they continue to be my teachers every day in life.

 

Pat Perdue  25:30

Wow. Well, Dr. Nafeesa Jalal I'm sure there are many of those listening who are absolutely inspired by this conversation. Thank you so much for spending time on the Seneca proud podcast. I really appreciated our conversation. Thank you. 

 

Nafeesa Jalal  25:43

Thank you so much Pat. Take care.

 

Pat Perdue  25:45

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. 

I just found that conversation with Dr. Jalal so inspiring. We covered a lot of ground from living the life of your own design, to the value of mentors and the importance of not letting anything stand in your way if there's something you want to achieve. Dr. Jalal is an example of someone who just decided to make it happen. And I particularly loved her message, that with hard work and focus we can live the life that we design for ourselves.  As you consider your direction for 2020 and beyond. take a page out of Dr. Jalal's handbook of life and dare to think big, you can do it. Until next time, thanks for listening. I'm Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca.