#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue (00:00):

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue and I'd like to welcome you to season five of the SenecaProud Podcast. So much change , and now we're post pandemic. Are we though kind of maybe <laugh>? What's absolutely true is that the last few years have seen dramatic changes at Seneca College as well. The massive scope of the Au Large project, which has been underway for a few years now, has been transforming Seneca into a college that embraces the highest standards of equity, diversity, and inclusion, as well as sustainability and flexibility. And this entire initiative is to ensure Seneca College is ready for the demands of the future. And with the popularity of AI and other new technologies, the future is becoming the present really quickly. And Senecans are leading the way in this brave new world, which brings us to season five. In this season, like all of our seasons, we have some amazing guests who are putting their Seneca one skills to work and are making a real splash in their career and in the world.

(01:05) 

Our guests join the pod to talk about their careers today, their experiences at Seneca and their future in this brave new kind of post pandemic. Yeah, everything's normal now, <laugh> kind of world. So stick around because the next episode of SenecaProud starts now.

(01:24) 

And welcome back to the SenecaProud Podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm really glad you are here. So how have you been <laugh>? I've had a nasty spring cold <laugh>. I think it's kind of going around. You can still sort of hear it in my voice, but the great thing about having a spring cold is that it's spring. The weather has been spectacular here in Toronto around 20, 21 degrees, and it's been super sunny. So it's sort of, you know, time to put away the winter clothes until October or November or next week <laugh> and unpack your favorite spring outfits and maybe treat yourself to something new, a light jacket, maybe. Maybe some new shoes, a pair of pants or two. Because let's face it, some of those clothes that you wore last year were so, 'last year' <laugh>, and it's time for a change, right? So question for you. If you're not going to wear some of last year's clothes anymore, what are you gonna do with them? Do you just keep them knowing that you'll never wear them? Or maybe you bring them to Value Village and donate it, which is the best option. Or maybe some of the clothes you want to get rid of are a bit tattered, or getting to value village is too much of a hassle. So you just throw it out. It's not just you. A lot of people do that, and the result is lots and lots of textiles hitting our landfills every month. To give you a sense of the issue, I'd like to read to you some stats from the website, earth.org.

(02:55) 

These are global numbers, but surely they are indicative of what's happening in Canada. Okay, the first one, 92 million tons of textile waste is produced every year. Of the 100 billion garments produced each year, 92 million tons end up in landfills <laugh>. To put things in perspective, this means that the equivalent of a rubbish, (it's a British site) truck full of clothes, ends up on landfill sites every second. And if the trend continues, the number of fast fashion waste is expected to soar up to 134 million tons a year by the end of the decade.

(03:34) 

Fast Fact number two, the apparel industry's global emissions will increase by 50% by 2030. If a 'business as usual' scenario prevails in the coming years, meaning that no action is taken to reduce fast fashion waste, the industry's global emissions will likely double by the end of the decade.

(03:54) 

Okay, the average US consumer throws away 81.5 pounds of clothes every year, and we can assume that Canadians are pretty much the same. So in America alone, an estimated 11.3 million tons of textile waste equivalent to 85% of all textiles ends up in landfills on a yearly basis. That's equivalent to approximately 81.5 pounds per person per year. And around 2,150 pieces per second nationwide.

(04:28) 

Fast Fact number four, the number of times a garment as worn has declined by 36% in 15 years. Guess how many times a garment is typically worn at present? Many items are worn only seven to 10 times before being tossed. And again, that's a decline of more than 35% in 15 years. Last, one second.

(04:52) 

Last one, <laugh> Fast Fashion Fact. The fashion industry is responsible for 20% of global waste water. Dying and finishing the processes by which color and other chemicals are applied to fabrics are responsible for 3% of global CO2 emissions, as well as over 20% of global water pollution. Along with yarn preparation and fiber production, These two processes have the highest impacts on resource depletion.

(05:22) 

Okay, and last one, this one blew me away. It takes 20,000 liters of water to produce one kilogram of cotton. Okay, so what does that mean? So here's another way to think about it. 2,700 liters of water are needed to make just one T-shirt. 2,700 liters of water! If you're wearing a T-shirt right now, you're wearing 2,700 liters of water. And of course, that would be enough for a person to drink for 900 days, or for me, it would last a lifetime because I don't drink much water. Clearly, I need to drink more water. But the point is, <laugh>, that's a lot of water, and a single load of washing uses between 50 and 60 liters of water. Okay? So that's the environmental impact of textiles and fashion. Crazy, right? And of course there's more. I'm gonna leave a link to earth.org in the show notes.

(06:25) 

And why am I telling you about all this <laugh>, not just to ruin your day. It's because our guest today, Seneca Professor Sabine Weber, is one of Canada's foremost authorities on textile waste in Canada. How big the problem is and what we can do about it. You're gonna love this episode. Okay, let me tell you about Dr. Sabine Weber.

(06:47) 

Sabine Weber has been teaching at Seneca Polytechnic, formerly known as Seneca College since 2016 in the School of Fashion; where she teaches in all three fashion programs, fashion, business and fashion, business management, fashion arts and fashion studies. Sabine's research topics are sustainable fashion, textile waste, and social innovation. Sabine's main interest is how social innovation can help to transform the fashion industry towards sustainability. Her particular focus is textile waste and a circular fashion system. Along with her students, she completed what became known as the dumpster dive study, which was funded by Seneca's Applied Research Fund.

(07:29) 

We touch on that study in our conversation, Sabine holds both a master's degree and a PhD from the University of Waterloo. And I have to tell you, this description of Sabine only scratches the surface of her accomplishments in the area of textile waste and sustainable fashion. Suffice it to say Sabine is one of, if not the number one expert on this topic in Canada. And she teaches right here at Seneca. Pretty cool, right? Sabine wasn't always so involved in textile waste. She began her career in Germany and later in Switzerland, where as a fashion buyer, she oversaw a purchasing budget of over 250 million per year. So how does one go from the rarefied heights of fashion to the depths of the dumpster, so to speak? <laugh>, here's Dr. Sabine Weber to tell us about her journey and why understanding the impact of fashion is so important.

(08:28) 

I'm curious what brings you from fashion to textile waste? You know, you started your career in the fashion industry and now you're sort of on the other end of that cycle. Can you walk us through a little bit about what that looks like?

 

Sabine Weber (08:44):

Yeah, that's a really great question, Pat and my mother actually made a comment on this and she said, what a downfall, you know, fashion, and now you're working on waste. 

 

Pat Perdue (08:55):

But is it a downfall though?

 

Sabine Weber (08:57):

I don't see it this way. I think, actually waste has something fascinating like fashion. I mean, fashion is, is my passion. This is what I really love. I like the texture, I like the different styles. I like combining them. I like the fashion business. But you know, as we all know, the fashion industry has a really huge environmental impact. And when I discovered this, I had the feeling we need to do something. I wanted to make the fashion industry a little bit better. I think most of us have a desire to leave the world a little bit better than it actually is. We all wanna do something meaningful. And when I have learned about this negative impact about this industry, I was wondering what of those problems are being caused in Canada. So we are not growing cotton. We are not really manufacturing a ton of material here. We don't really have, um, you know, this labor exploration issue. We don't have, a lot of the problems of this industry are not in Canada. But what we really have is textile waste. And this is the reason why I choose waste as a topic, because I wanted to do something in Canada where I'm living. So I'm not even Canadian, but I wanted to do something in Canada to make this place better, uh, where I'm currently, you know, at.

 

Pat Perdue (10:20):

Can you share with us a little bit for those who are listening, there might not even be a deep understanding of what textile waste is and the relationship between the fashion industry and textile waste. Can you walk us through a little bit of what that looks like?

 

Sabine Weber (10:38):

Yeah, I think we have to start, with where, how many clothes are we consuming? And I don't know, pat, how many clothes do you buy per year? Have you ever thought about this?

 

Pat Perdue (10:48):

I, well, I have, I have thought about it. This is a topic that's very close to my heart. You know, as we talked about in previous conversations, a little bit about my professional background, I was in charge of brand experience for Tommy Hilfiger USA. And I have a deep connection with the fashion industry and I enjoy the fashion industry and I've given that some thought. And in recent years, I have tried to reduce the amount of clothes I purchase because I know that I just rent it. It's going to find its way into a landfill eventually. Share with me what, when I say that, what are your thoughts?

 

Sabine Weber (11:26):

Yeah, it's a very mature answer you're giving me here. If I ask this question, my students, they're sometimes laughing and then it takes a while and then I usually get answers, which, you know, some might say, oh, I really buy nothing or almost nothing. But then I have others and they say, well, probably 200 pieces per year.

 

Pat Perdue (11:48):

Wow.

 

Sabine Weber (11:49):

And, um, them saying, okay, don't feel guilty. You know, we all have to start somewhere, but let's talk about really, you know, how many we buying, when are we buying, what you know, when, why, how? And then I give them the two, the stats. Then the stats is the average non-American customer purchases about 64 items per year.

 

Pat Perdue (12:11):

64, 12, 24, 36, 48, 60. That's five or six items a month. No more than that.

 

Sabine Weber (12:22):

1.2 garments. This makes 1.2 garments per week.

 

Pat Perdue (12:26):

Oh, exactly.

 

Sabine Weber (12:28):

So we are actually buying food, uh, clothes. Like food. We are buying our clothes, you know, like on a weekly basis as we buy groceries. But I was, when I came to Canada, and I live in Waterloo, which I call a fashion desert because the biggest fashion retailer hadn't arrived yet. I'm not, I'm sure you know the biggest fashion tailor is Sarah Inditex. And we don't have them here. So I was driving around in my Waterloo, in my fashion desert, and then I saw a big sign of Walmart food and fashion. And then I was thinking, you know, food and fashion, how does this actually go together? You know, models are usually super skinny. I wouldn't wanna buy my clothes next to a cucumber or a milk bottle. You know, I think this is kind of gross. Why would you make such a headline? But if you take this now into, into this fact that we are buying clothing, like 1.2 garments per week, like groceries, then the concept actually makes sense.

(13:29) 

if we are buying so many clothes all the time, then there's another issue which comes with this. We can't wear five t-shirts at once. Usually we only wear one at a time. Now this means you have all these clothing, but you can't really wear them. And because you can't wear them, they need to go somewhere because sooner or later your closet will be overloaded. And actually our closets have increased since the sixties by more than 60%. So if you look into old houses, they have usually a very small closet. The new ones have way bigger ones because they all know we have so much stuff. But no matter how big your closet is, sooner or later this material needs to go somewhere. And the moment we are having this, we create what I call textile waste. So unwanted clothing, unwanted shoes. This is also part of textile waste in a bit of a broader um, perspective because shoes are usually not made from fibers. But textile waste would also include, for example, accessories, spells, linen, whatever you can imagine there. So that's kind. Also, textiles could also include home textiles. You know, for example, your curtains, your bed sheets made from fibers. So we have a bit of a broader understanding what textile waste is. It could be everything you wear on your body, but it could also be in your house, but you need to decorate your rooms. That's my way. 

 

Pat Perdue (14:59):

<affirmative>. Mm-hmm.  And can you share with us a little bit about your dumpster dive study? And did it surprise you? Were any of the findings surprising to you? Or did they really confirm suspicions that you already had?

 

Sabine Weber (15:13):

So what we all know is because we have so many clothes, let me start there. A lot of the material is being considered old after only three times wearing. So we wear them three times. We think the stuff is old. And then usually after seven times wearing, people want to get rid of their stuff. So the question is now how do they get rid of their stuff? Will they donate those items to a charity or, you know, maybe this is inconvenient and maybe outside it's cold and you don't really know where is the next donation bin? And you don't want come somebody picking up at your house and then you might put it in the garbage just because it's so convenient and you are allowed to do so. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And this is how we create this textile waste. And so the question for me is, how much textiles do we really have in the waste stream? And what is the condition of those garments, of those textiles? And what could we do with them? And what we have found out is that we have, and this is this whole part of the subsidized study, is that we have 4.43% of textiles in the wave stream. And that is a lot. You might think, oh, 4%, what is this? But let's be clear, if you look at your municipality, what are you allowed to put in the garbage?

 

Pat Perdue (16:33):

What am I allowed to… I, anything that's non-recyclable, I suppose.

 

Sabine Weber (16:36):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you are diverting cardboard, you are diverting packaging, right? There is a program for tires, there's a program for colors, there is a program for e waste and so on. Yep. But what really goes into the garbage, or it's allowed, is actually not very much. It's all different kind of miscellaneous pieces. You don't know where you put them. Right. And so this kind of garbage is a very wide and colorful mixture of materials. And because of this, a group with 4.4% is actually quite big. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So what we can say, textiles makes a huge amount of this remaining waste in the waste stream. And it's one of the few waste categories which have been not addressed yet and are not even a designated waste material.

 

Pat Perdue (17:23):

And what do you think is the reason behind, I guess our, our society's slowness in addressing these as, uh, as a waste material that we can repurpose or recycle or in some way divert from landfill?

 

Sabine Weber (17:42):

One of the reasons is everywhere you need a waste diversion program costs, usually money to the municipality, and nobody really wants to pay for this, so you need some kind of a stewardship program to finance it. So for example, if you look at the blue box until recently, all those big companies are paying that the municipalities can actually manage the packaging. So you need somebody who is paying for it. And the question is now if this would be from the fashion, who would pay for this textile rate? 

 

Pat Perdue (18:13):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's almost, I'm thinking of, uh, of things like a carbon tax where we pay at the pump or we pay when we book an airline ticket and that's diverted to the consumers. Or what would you like to see? You are arguably one of our nation's leading experts on this topic. What would you like to see happen?

 

Sabine Weber (18:32):

Well, I would like to have some kind of a stewardship program. And what I can see here is, if you look for example, at the current blue box, and there is a lot of film and plastic, those materials have really no value. But if you look at our textiles, which are in the, in the garbage, they actually have a value. They have way more value than a lot of the materials, which we divert. And my argument is, if we would do this, we would actually have, we would make a positive, we would gain money, we would actually create business development and economic development because this garbage has way more value than what we currently divert. So we, it's actually a really loss in terms of finance and it's also a negative for the environment.

 

Pat Perdue (19:16):

And what are your thoughts on, people might be thinking, well, you know it's, this is happening in other sectors, for example, water bottles, plastic water bottles, and we see the commercials where these shoes are made with water bottles and items like that. When I say that as a point of comparison, what are your thoughts? Is that a legitimate point of comparison or does that not work?

 

Sabine Weber (19:37):

Oh, yes. I think we need comparison to see where we are and where we need to go. But the question is of course, that the water bottles is a really particular topic. And you can see that a lot of garments in the meantime are made from recycled polyester and everybody thinks, oh, this is good. You know, we are actually recycling those clothes. And then we have a garment made from recycled polyester. But people are not aware that this polyester comes from those plastic bottles, which we shouldn't drink in the first place. You know, drinking water bottles, um, with a bottled water and not using a water fountain is actually already negative in the behavior, which we should not encourage. And then to make them use those water bottles to make recycled garments is not really helping anybody. It might look great because you can read recycled polyester, but it's definitely not a solution.

(20:28) 

I think really we have to be aware of. Recycling is good, but recycling is not the solution of the problems. Recycling requires energy and a lot of, you know, effort, it comes with a cost. It's not for free. So the question is, how can we avoid creating so much in the first place? And what else can we do <laugh>? And this brings us back to the number, because if you looked at this textile waste, and you know, the garments are only being worn seven times, and then they may be end up in the garbage bin, you know, what is the condition of those clothes? And what we found out in the dumpster dive study is that 65% of all those garments in this garbage are good. You could wear them Pat, you and me, we could wear them, they would be fine. So we are actually throwing so many garments away, which could be, you know, easily be reused. And I can't say 30% of those garments, which we found were in perfect condition, even with the price tag.

 

Pat Perdue (21:36):

If you know, I know this is an, this is an audio podcast, and did you see my jaw drop Sabine? We're doing this on video. Uh, my jaw dropped when you said that. I was shocked with the price tag still on it.

 

Sabine Weber (21:50):

Yes. And you wonder how is this coming? So for example, it sounds really crazy, but for example, we found a lot of underpants in perfect condition. And then you, you start thinking, you know, why do we find so many underpants, which have never been used? But then you have to think about how are we consuming underwear? So very often people buy them without trying, and very often you buy three at the same time because they're in multipacks being sold. So you buy a pack of three underpants at home, you try the first one and you recognize, oh, the fit is not great, and what are you doing? Well, what can you do? Right? You don't feel like, oh, should I really donate my underpants at a secondhand? Retailers who sell underwear. There are, but you wouldn't even think about it. And then maybe you feel a little bit embarrassed.

(22:44) 

I cannot bring my underwear, you know? So what are you doing? You put them in the garbage. And then there you have up two brand new from your package of three, which nobody has ever even worn. And they, yeah, they're lying there. And this is, wow, this is the interesting part. You look at this garbage and you see things and then your brain starts working. What has happened? You know, what was going on? Why do we find this? And of course, the material is manufacturing. We found a wedding dress. I mean, why would you put your wedding dress in the garbage?

 

Pat Perdue (23:16):

<laugh>, There's a story behind that wedding dress. I am sure of it.

 

Sabine Weber (23:21):

I hope you all had a good fantasy and you created a story

 

Pat Perdue (23:24):

<laugh>.

 

Sabine Weber (23:25):

I hope it's a good one. <laugh>.

 

Pat Perdue (23:27):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So knowing that this is the case, you know, and I'm sure our listeners are having the same experience that I'm having with, which is kind of, wow, okay, clearly something's wrong here. What do you see as our options in terms of, I guess a, the amount of textile waste in landfills as well as I suppose, encouraging industry to use this waste to create new products. New perhaps plastic products or even new apparel? What do you see as a solution?

 

Sabine Weber (24:03):

Well, the first part is where everybody has to help. We need to bring our clothing to a donation program. You know, either you bring it or you already pick it up. But we need to donate our clothes and all our textiles, including the shoes, accessories. That's the first step. And we should not be picky. We should not resource, you know, we should not be the one who is deciding this is good enough for reuse or not. I think we should, you know, just put everything we have in a bag and donate the material, including your underwear, including your socks, even those with the holes. And let the specialists actually decide on what to do with this material. And then the good things will be sorted out. And they go into reuse and the material, which is not good enough, this is being, they look at this and then they will figure out how it can be recycled.

(24:53) 

And right now, I mean, this is what the big process is. We are trying to create a recycling industry in Canada. We have already possibilities to recycle textiles here. But of course, this industry needs to grow and it needs to be more common. And we need to create, you know, those recycling supply chains. It'll take us a few more years. But we are, we have started, and hopefully one day material which is not good, will be recycled in Canada and not go somewhere to Africa. You know, that's the whole plan, not to have this waste colonialism that we dumped material in other countries.

 

Pat Perdue (25:33):

I'm reminded of a news item that came to light, I'm thinking maybe five years ago, where the Philippines was singling out Canada for shipping so much of our waste to the Philippines. And this is, I remember when that came to light, I don't know if you recall that, but I think a lot of Canadians were thinking, really? I didn't even know we did that. I didn't even know that was a thing.

 

Sabine Weber (25:56):

But theoretically, we are not allowed to ship waste to other countries. This is actually something which must be decided by the federal government. So we probably have had a different communication for those materials which we ship. So right now we cannot ship plastic waste anymore, but now we are actually shipping chips of plastic, which we color brown before we ship them. And now it's one color. And it's not more waste, it's, I mean, there's different avenues to work around, laws and regulations. Yeah. That's the nature of the beast. I think we won't be able to change this, but what we can do is we can provide alternatives in our countries where we actually provide solutions and possibilities. And I think that's what I kind of try to achieve to, you know, create this industry in Canada with all these jobs and to make this actually happen. That we don't have to ship this, that we have an alternative in Canada to manage this material.

 

Pat Perdue (26:52):

You know, Sabine, when you're describing the situation, it feels like a perfect storm of opportunity where you have individuals who really truthfully don't want to throw out their clothing, but they feel maybe they don't have a choice or they're not informed of what they can do with it. So they go with the path of least resistance and they put it into the landfill. But if we could figure out a way to make it easy for the diversion process to take place and bring that relatively, I guess we could call it raw material to an entrepreneur or a manufacturer in such a way that it could be possible to reuse that waste, that textile waste in such a way that products could be developed and produced, that feels like a real entrepreneurial opportunity.

 

Sabine Weber (27:42):

Oh yeah. There is a global debate about the solutions to recycle. There's startups in all countries, including Canada, but we also have already existing opportunities. So for example, I have been working as a consultant with a stakeholder group. One of the partners was Sportcheck, and they have implemented a takeback program for their, you know, for jerseys, for hockey jerseys, board jerseys, polyester material, which you don't really want anymore. After a while, maybe it's a little bit stinky, maybe this kind of contaminated, it's usually polyester. So they collected this material. We set up a working group with Goodwill Industries in London. They picked up those material from those stores, and then they prepared it for recycling. So they removed the accessories, they removed big plastic prints, kind of cleaned the material. And then the material was being sent to Montreal to a company called Chest Tech. And they actually have shredded these textiles, and they open the fiber end so that it's not just, you know, a piece of fabric, but an opening ending. And then we send it to a equip to a company, and they created a needle punch belt. And the material was actually really nice and beautiful. And then later on we used this felt to create a laundry hamper, which is currently sold at Canadian Tire.

 

Pat Perdue (29:03):

Amazing.

 

Sabine Weber (29:04):

So textile recycling in Canada, it is possible.

 

Pat Perdue (29:08):

And was this a pilot project or is this something that people, our listeners can go buy today?

 

Sabine Weber (29:13):

So this was a pilot project to show actually that we can do this. And my understanding at this time when we set up the pilot was, okay, we need to create supply chains for recycling. Not every company has to do everything. We actually have different companies who are really good in different things, but we need to bring them together. And when we actually created this, I thought, okay, maybe one pilot is good, but one pilot will not help the world. What can we do to scale it? And in this time, we actually ask other companies like Joe Fresh, like at Ardene, like Martin Equipment and all others, if they would like to join to learn how you set up your own textile recycling pilot. And that we had a learning group going with us, with municipalities, with industry, with government to see, you know, what is the challenge when you make such a pilot?

(30:06) 

How much time does it take? How much do you have to work with the fibers? What is the cleaners? What is the laboring? So for example, when we did, we created our wonderful laundry hamper, and then we wanted to put in a label. And of course our laundry hamper is made from recycled polyester. But if you look at the laws and regulations, you can claim it is recycled polyester. But ours is made from used clothing not from plastic bottles, which is way more complicated, and way more beautiful. But the labeling doesn't make a difference. It's recycled polyester.

 

Pat Perdue (30:39):

I love the symbolism of transforming textile waste into a laundry basket, into a laundry hamper. I think that's fantastic. Poetry <laugh>. And I was going to say, this has been a very enlightening conversation, Sabine, and I really appreciate your taking the time to spend with us. As we're getting toward the end of our conversation, what are some thoughts or ideas that you would like to leave our listeners with?

 

Sabine Weber (31:05):

Well, donate your clothes whenever you can. Or let somebody pick them up. That's really the point. Don't put them in the garbage. This is too sad. And try to think about your consumption. Try about, you know, how much clothes you buy. Do you really want them? Do you really need them? Are there other options? What you could do? I would say we all need to start with our own clothing consumption habits and buy less but better, smarter. Maybe it's spend a bit more, but just avoid those frustration shoppings or, you know, this recreational shopping. Buy what you really need. Make sure the garments really fit perfectly. You know, don't make any compromises. You like it, but maybe it's not perfect. And try to avoid this. I've had this situation myself. I think a few weeks ago I saw a blouse, fell in love with it. I've already seen it in the internet, went to the store, you know, saw myself with this blouse and I was in the store and I had the feeling the fit is not perfect, but I was already in love with his blouse. And it took me so much energy to not purchase it, <laugh>

 

Pat Perdue (32:18):

Exactly. But you know, I, I love the you the mantra of, you have to love it. Buy it because you love it. And if you love it, yeah. Buy it. Even if it's a little bit more expensive and it will last longer and you'll love it. And I think that's what fashion is all about.

 

Sabine Weber (32:34):

Yeah. But fashion is also fast. Fashion is quick flash. Fashion changes all the time. Fashion is kind of tempting. Yes. You know, you see something, it doesn't cost the world and you could say, oh, that's fine. But making your own rules. So I count, for example, I love fashion, I love shopping, but I have rules. Like I count exactly how many garments I buy per year. I have a running to, you know, I have to live up to my own expectations. I cannot only tell people don't buy less, you know, I feel I have an obligation to live the same. So I found I cannot, I cannot kind of cheat here on myself. I take care. And you need to figure out, you know, what you can do. For example, make sure you're not buying the same garment again. We all have a tendency to buy the same garment over and over. Maybe you think a black shirt is always good, but you have already five black shirts.  We have tendencies, we have rules, but we do. And patterns of behavior. And we need to understand what we do and then think about it how we can make it better. Does it make sense?

 

Pat Perdue (33:39):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. It does. And this is great advice. And Sabine, I really appreciate your taking time out of your busy schedule as you prepare to teach in Costa Rica, which is so interesting. A whole other fascinating conversation that sadly we don't have time for. But I really wish you the best of luck in Costa Rica as you teach for Seneca, continue to teach for Seneca and thank you so much for spending your time and sharing your insights with us today.

 

Sabine Weber (34:06):

Thank you, Pat. But I have to say something to Costa Rica, I had a call yesterday with one of the big secondhand traders in Canada, and I said, we are going to Costa Rica with the Seneca students. And then he said, oh, there's quite a big sale from Toronto. Actually, people selling used clothes to Costa Rica. So they actually have quite big import there. Would you like to visit one of the importers of the youth clothing from Canada in Costa Rica? And you can see what they do with the material. And I was like, okay, <laugh>, I haven't thought about our clothes traveling to Costa Rica. We could visit them in a facility, <laugh> and uh, and see what they do with it, how they're managing it. And interestingly, this company just said to me was also upcycling the material. So they clean it, they have washing machines and they clean it and they're upcycled. And we have an upcycling workshops actually planned with our students. So I think that's kind of cool. And we'll see if maybe we can make it happen.

 

Pat Perdue (35:07):

It sounds great. And what a great case study that can be taken to other markets. Sounds like it's really important work.

 

Sabine Weber (35:14):

Hope so, <laugh>.

 

Pat Perdue (35:15):

Okay. Well, Sabine Weber, thank you again for joining the podcast. This has been a great entertaining and enlightening conversation. I really appreciate it.

 

Sabine Weber (35:24):

Again, thank you, pat. And I hope you know you all get inspired a little bit. So think about your clothes and see the environmental and social impact of them, and think about how you can make this industry a little bit better, I think. Really. Sustainable fashion is a shared responsibility between the producer, the consumer, and government. It's not just one group who has to do all the work

 

Pat Perdue (35:48):

I agree. Well, with that, thank you again. And best of luck in Costa Rica. Thank you for all the good work that you're doing. Bye.

(35:57) 

That was my conversation with Dr. Sabine Weber, Seneca professor and one of Canada's foremost experts on textile waste. What from our conversation resonated with you? For me, this is a topic that's very close to my heart. In a previous aspect of my career, I was very involved with the brand Tommy Hilfiger. And I've consulted with many fashion brands from Tommy to Calvin Klein to many others. And what struck me from speaking with Sabine is the market potential that's here if we can only unlock it. So to the entrepreneurs listening, if you want to help save the planet, this sounds like a pretty good place to focus your energy. I'd like to thank Dr. Sabine Weber for joining us today. And I'd also like to thank you for listening. This episode was edited by Courtney Rheaume. I'm Pat Perdue. Until next time, stay proud. Seneca.