#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:00

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to season four of the Seneca proud podcast. Okay, so COVID isn't quite a thing of the past, but it's gonna be. And that's great news, because we've got our sights set on an amazing future. And I hope you do too. Students will be returning to classes, little by little classes will be offered in a more inclusive way, using leading edge technologies. And we're getting set for an incredibly bright, inclusive, equitable future. And the future is what Seneca proud Season Four is all about. Everything from the near term future of life at Seneca College, in a post pandemic world, it's going to be pretty great to what life after Seneca means. And hey, if you're a student, I get that life after Seneca is something that's on your mind. What are you going to do? Are you going to measure up to the competition? And what can you do today to really set yourself up to succeed? To help with those questions.

This season includes graduated Seneca students who have been out there doing their thing for at least a few years. We'll hear their ups and their downs, and what you can do to help set yourself up for success. So if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and join me as we consider the future and meet the people who are transforming dreams into reality. Because the next episode of Seneca proud starts now.

And welcome back to another episode of the Seneca proud podcast. I'm your host, Pat Perdue.

So it's not officially Spring. But do you have the sense that Spring is right around the corner, the days are noticeably longer, we have more days that are not below the freezing level. And if you've been in Toronto for more than five years or so, you know that it's not uncommon for us to get nailed with snow in March. But I just took a peek at some long-range forecasts (like that will do any good), but anyway, I did. And it doesn't seem like any serious weather is in our future. Or near future anyway, so haha, looking good! Congratulations on making it through another winter.

Oh, and this Saturday night or really Sunday morning at 2am is Daylight Savings Time. For our international listeners who may not be familiar with that. Daylight Savings Time is when we set our clocks ahead. By one hour. A way to remember it is spring forward, fall back. If you're an international student not residing in Canada, make sure you check with your prof about how the time change will affect your class start time in your local time zone.

And speaking of change, a big change that's happening right now is that more classes are on campus. Some of those classes are what's known as Hybrid classes. Hybrid classes are classes that are a blend of online and in person. And it's pretty much up to the prof in discussion with our students to decide which classes are in person and which are online. Another type of class is called Flex or HyFlex. In this kind of classroom, the professor will always conduct the class in a classroom and the live classes are recorded from cameras in the classroom, students have the option of attending class in person or viewing it online live or watching the recorded version whenever it works for them. Pretty cool, right? But think about how tricky it is to make all of that happen. of installing the technology making sure it works. And then making sure that the profs know how to use it and leverage it to the courses best advantage. To me that sounds like it has a lot of potential for unintended humor. I can just imagine Lucille Ball or Mr. Bean doing one of those classes. Oh my goodness. Could you imagine? So as you probably have guessed, our show today is about flex classes. And we're joined by two amazing Seneca professors who were among the first to teach in the flex environment. So let me tell you about our two guests today. Tatiana Mighiu teaches in the Opticianry diploma program at Seneca College. Among her courses our introduction to optics, eyeglass dispensing lab and contact lens theory one and two, contact lens lab one and two. Professor MIghiu is also the Opticienry Diploma Program Co-ordinator.  Professor Mighiu earned her Bachelor of mechanical engineering at Polytechnic University in Romania, and then furthered her education right here at Seneca in the Opticianry Diploma Program, which is amazing. We're also joined by Professor Raghad Kamel, who teaches a variety of courses in the School of Electronics and Mechanical Engineering Technology, and Faculty of Applied Science and Engineering Technology. Professor Kamel received her Bachelor of Science and Master's of Science degrees at the University of Baghdad in Iraq, and then earned her PhD in mechanical engineering at Ryerson University here in Toronto. As you can imagine, the courses these professors teach are pretty tricky. They require precision calculations. There's light theory involved. The material is difficult under the best circumstances, both of these professors needed to first adapt to flipping everything online in like three weeks back in 2020. And then last semester, they adapted their quite intense courses to flex and we get to hear how it went. And because they're so amazing, it went pretty well. Okay, so here's my conversation with Professors Tatiana Mighiu and Raghad Kamel with Professor Mighiu starting our conversation off by sharing a day in the life of setting up a Flex class. And then Professor Kamel talks about some of the inevitable technology surprises that happen when trying something new. Okay, here's Professor Tatiana Mighiu.

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  06:08

I was thought maybe, before I walk into the class, because you need to assign yourself a 1520 minutes before class started to get prepared with our HyFlex. So you have to reach the security, you have to have somebody to come to open the door for you. And then you have to just thought your Blackboard, you have to wait for that you have to do all the connection. I am teaching of physics or contact lenses in either class, I need my tablet for now. So I have to connect with that. So I will say a good 20 minutes, I always have to be prior to class start. So make sure everything is prepared. Test your you know, video, test your microphone, make sure everything is working. Get feedback from from the students. Generally, I opened my class sooner on zoom so that the students can can attend. And then I work with the students to make sure everything is ready, and we can start on time. So that will be the first first step for me

 

Pat Perdue  07:19

Reghad, how about you?

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  07:21

I agree with the Tatiana, what she said we need at least like 15 to 20 minutes to prepare the podium because more technologies are involved. And also, I know I think now we don't need to worry about the battery for the mic. But last semester, I just every time I'm I was worried about the battery works or not. I have a spare with me. Anyway. So yeah, preparing and make sure everything is okay.

 

Pat Perdue  07:49

And Raghad, you mentioned that you would keep a spare battery with you, I was going to ask you, what are the things that could go wrong or that you would worry about or double check or maybe any surprises on some of the first days.

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  08:04

For the battery, it happens with me two times the student online just text me or the wrote in the chart, they couldn't hear me and then I check the mic, the device for the mic and it's the battery was off. And the thing I had with me spare, but I heard like they now I think they fix this issue. And there is no need for worrying about their battery other time. And also the internet connection. It's very important, especially especially especially with them with the online test during the class time. And it happened with one test and everybody received like 30 emails at the same time because they couldn't do the test. And I contact the IT service at that time. And they told me there was an issue of the internet and Seneca and just quickly I email over the whole class, it will be solved immediately. So it was a stress on me and my students. If they would be in the class in person to do the test. We don't have such situation. So the internet, the technology, that's the issue,

 

Pat Perdue  09:11

And you both taught in the traditional in class only. You've taught online and now you're doing HyFlex. And maybe Tatiana in your experience as you compare all of those three. Is it even a fair question to compare them like when you put them side by side in your mind? What do you think of?

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  09:31

Well, it's interesting question. Before the pandemic we will not even question so much teaching online and especially the science subjects we knew was coming and they were ready programs were teaching online and and they were much better catered for the online and they were very well prepared. But we had a very short transition and we had no choice. So aside of teaching online, we have to learn how to use a graphics card. bled to solve problems online. So was challenging. But I think this is amazing because we have this technology and we were able to carry on with our courses and transition. I don't say it was easy, but I think was was at the right pace was normal for the students I, I think they embrace the technology quite well and and quickly, so it was not so much training to have to do with the students. I used to test online even before we did the online teaching. So I was a bit familiar with I had prepared exams and partially not all of them, but idea that now what I can see because I teach very courses, so I teach courses on theory on contact lenses, I teach courses on physics optics they spent, so I guess dispensing I can see that some are definitely well catered to in person, some of them will go so very well with hybrid, and some of them, they will be online. And as a program co-ordinator, that's what actually we started to work and do. With with the program moving forward. I would think my physics course I'm teaching at the students in the first semester, I will turn back to in class now that it's possible because you have students coming from high school, you have to spend that extra time to teach them how to study to be behind them to see actually of how they work, and help them more than you can do online. And also when it comes to the math having a class where you have a blackboard and when I select my classes, if I didn't like how big my Blackboard was, I was asking for a different class, I can work for five or six problems at the same time, different problems, and I can have students think about analyze them all at the same time. So when you teach the subject online, you can only do one problem at a time. So that that flexibility you still do not have the do not have online. On on the other hand, I we were able to create a lot of problems in Blackboard mathematical problems of online which, which we didn't have before. And I even if the students will be back to school, probably some quizzes or so we can still carry and continue to be to be online. But I think it's it's we have so many options now. And the only thing we have all there great. We just have to capture the proper delivery mode with with your specificity of your course. Correct. Right.

 

Pat Perdue  12:45

And maybe the student as well.

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  12:46

Yes. And the students Yeah. Well, that's hard to tell because you you might have a mix, like our in our program, I will say we have that 30 / 30 / 30 rules. So we have about 30% of the students coming from high school 30% Of the students returning young students returning from university career changes and then you have adult learners. And I had seen that with HyFlex now the older generation prefers to take the exams on paper steal the younger ones, some of them they are more comfortable with, with writing online No. Again, that's that's very hard. We are not homogeneous when it comes to to this still study student body we have in our classes correct so what we know content that's something we we know. But students it's this change from generation to generation year to year you just have to

 

Pat Perdue  13:41

Yeah, and and Raghad, what are your thoughts of that as you think of for your program, and your courses when you think of in person compared to online only. And now the hybrid approach? How do all those three compare?

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  13:56

I think every style or board has its own advantages and disadvantages. Like for example in person, they have more chances to have more activities in campus like gym, job fair or interact with people, communication skills with others, I see it's very important to be in person, person to person. And this will help them in the future when they work in different companies and teamwork. And for online or high online. They say lectures are recorded so anyone can back to the lecture. Any time in person we didn't or we do we don't record them. And the engagement of students online is not like in person. When I know that it's a way for online in zoom or any other platform we can split them into groups, and we did many times but when we I visited the room and other rooms we split it I see some student they keep quiet they don't participate but if They are in the class in person. And they work in a group for like a question or like activity, for example, as we did before, they, they are more engaged in these such or such activities. So I think HyFlex gives the options to the students will be in person or online. Some of them we know, they work. So they have more flexible time commuting time. When in winter, for example, we have a snowstorm or something. So, there is no like something to prevent us to attend the class for the online. So I think every style of teaching has its own advantages and disadvantages or the end, it depends on the course itself. If we teach the say software, so teaching software, and I did actually online, and it was a big challenge for me. When the challenge I faces and I faced early, and it's still I have it, when they have a question, they emailed me about like, something wrong in the software, and I cannot answer them without seeing the software itself. So I found a way to deal with such situation that I create like, office link hours, it's open 24/7. And then when student emailed me and right away email, are you available now or within one hour, so we meet online, and then he or she share the screen software I carry through their mistakes or the errors? That's a challenge. But in person when they have any question about the software, it's so easy to figure out and fix it. So anyway, at the end, it depends on the course it depends on the program and their advantages and disadvantages of Sure. So we cannot say one, one pattern fit for all.

 

Pat Perdue  17:04

Because it's so new, I think we're in the process of discovering,

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  17:08

I just want to add to this, I'm, I have two contact lens courses, teaching this this winter semester. So I continue with HyFlex on both. Now looking back, I would have choose one hybrid and one Hyflex, because would have given you the opportunity to compare at the same time, the two different modes, because it's different when you go one after the other and as we are but just sort of the same course into I think would have given me as a teacher a little bit better perspective of the two. And I probably am going to do that next year. I'm more intrigued now, and try to work on both. And I think we'll be again, if we offer this for the same type, of course not just to capture the same course, with the same delivery mode on our sections to give that flexibility for the students maybe, you know, Hybrid, like with a HyFlex I think I am bound because it's just the students choice. And you as an educator, I will know what flexibility I think that course will be better for the students for a particular lecture. Maybe not all of them but a small part. But you don't have that flexibility. Why do we have to Hybrid, you can capture your weekly topic where you can say, well, for this particular week, you're going to be in class. So I always want to experience that to try to teach on both the delivery modes the same course at the same time and see how it goes.

 

Pat Perdue  18:36

That sounds like it would be an interesting experiment.

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  18:39

And also I would like to add something, especially for first semester students and we would like to see our students and interact with them introduce themselves so and and also for them as I asked them, what's the professor and I understand that this is a new chapter for them. If they come from new high school, they would like to experience actual real life in campus for that new era or a new chapter of their life.

 

Pat Perdue  19:09

That's part of the fun, right?

19:10

Exactly! So they would like to experience something new. It's not like the same like the highest school.

 

Pat Perdue  19:17

And I'll just put this question out to both of you. How has the students' response been? Have people been attending? Or do you find that there are certain students that only attend in person and certain students that only attend online? How is that piece?

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  19:33

Well, it varies. It is the same pattern I had from the first semester to the second teaching HyFlex. I had one of the classes started at eight o'clock, eight o'clock to 1040 and the students had no other class on campus. And even though I taught HyFlex the students will prefer to be at home did not make sense for them to travel just for one class to come to the to the campus. In the other class I had the students have to come for the labs to have the groups. So then it makes sense for them to be to be in person and and then they realize after the class, you are there with the students, you can have some extra time on the hallway, stay after class, and it was different from online. But I think how the scheduling is done for the students that will make also a difference on what choices they prefer.

 

Pat Perdue  20:27

That makes a lot of sense.  Raghad, what are your thoughts on that?

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  20:29

Last semester, I had two sections and one section I, I had always like, yes, some students in the class in person. And I figured out they had the lab like away after my class at that time. So they attended. Some of them, they told me they prefer a person doesn't matter. They had a class or not. The other section, it was 8am. And as Tatiana mentioned 8am, and they are, so most of the classes, I was alone in the classroom, honestly. So it becomes like, online more than HyFlex. I think if we have more activities in the campus, this will encourage students to come in the campus, I think.

 

Pat Perdue  21:17

And that's exactly I think what Tatiana was inferring if there's an extra reason, whether it's a lab, or an activity to be on campus, rather than simply the course by itself. And both of you teach such interesting courses. Like for example, Tatiana, you teach physics, and it's really the physics of optics, of eyewear and contact lenses. And there's a lot of calculation. And one of the things that we touched on in our earlier conversation, and maybe you can expand upon is how important it can be to be in person while somebody is working through an equation versus you know, they're doing it on their own on a computer, and then you check back at another time. Could you weigh in on that? And maybe expand on that a little bit?

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  22:03

Yes, I do agree with this. When you teach physics, you just don't lecture, correct? You have always activity, you have problems, you either give the same problem to the class, or you put them to work in group and, and you can play with them a game and you know, the bond was for the students who gave the right answer. So you are able to engage them a little bit more, but also as they are working, you go behind each group and you look and see if they write proper steps if they do the right calculation, if they know the formulas, what you cannot do when you when you teach online. And even though I taught hybrid classes, I give them homework, which I mark about 40 problems per semester where the students physically had to work the problems and hand them to their lab teachers, and I will collect them and I will mark them and get their feedback because just for me teaching in front of the screen, and solving as many problems as I know, I knew was not sufficient for me to like I didn't feel confident the students know what they are doing just by me stalled. Solve the problem. So that was extra work, which we tried it but I thought it was important for the students because this way I I knew when they get into a midterm exam or a final exam, how well prepared they are mm hmm,

 

Pat Perdue  23:24

Absolutely, and Raghad, what are your thoughts for that? You know, you teach HVACs and air conditioning and air quality? And...

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  23:31

Yeah, the course was air handling. And there are some numerical calculations or question they have also on this course, research project, they work in a group. And in the blackboard, we can split them into groups, they can work together even online because the group they have their own discussion board, but still they meet in the campus and they exchange idea or thoughts, it would be better. That's part of the communication skills. As I mentioned earlier, communication skills is very, very important in their career and future. And always I tell them communication, it's a very, very important factor to be success in your life. Without good communication, maybe you are a very good person with good knowledge, but you don't have the skills for communication. This will affect your future.

 

Pat Perdue  24:22

That's such a good point and I'm wondering if that's something that when they hear that message, are they surprised by that?

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  24:30

I heard from some students they prefer in person for this reason, because they would like to see who are in their class but substitute in they prefer to be aligned to be a way because they get like the they will be in very tough situation like bullied by others. And this is really hard to me when I heard because they're usually when I start the semester any course I was meant to meter with a question. What do you think about the online and what prefer, they just like anything. And really I was surprised about some of the answers. Some people they prefer to be online because they get bullied by other. That's very Wow. Yeah, I was so surprised. Some people they prefer online because they are working. So they can handle or manage their time. It's recorded the lecture. So it's, it depends on it depends. Yeah.

 

Pat Perdue  25:25

And Tatiana, what are your thoughts on that?

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  25:28

Yeah, I do I agree.  What I would say like when we offer a course, maybe we should give a little bit more of the connection in between the learning outcome and the teaching modality. Because they just make up our students had no options correct, because we offer all the courses as HyFlex. So that's what we thought was good for them. And we're limited and we're still COVID areas. So but now I think we have to give a little bit more background to especially in first semester students when they transition from high school to, to tell them a little bit of the advantages and disadvantages of the teaching mode. I think they need to know a little bit more, because I'm very sure students coming from high school they do not play, we have generation of students now who will be two years in high school online. And they compare that online maybe with a College Online, which is different, correct, because you have more courses, they are more evaluations, you have to meet prerequisites to be able to move to the next semester. So they need to know a little bit more of backrow. water delivery more for us as instructor is very clear. But I don't know also, if it's very clear for the students. And if I as I mentioned, we consider offering the same course in different delivery modes for the students.

 

Pat Perdue  26:47

It's almost like, and I'm wondering if the students themselves, particularly the ones that are right out of high school, are they the best ones to determine their modality I know for me right out of high school, I would have been online all the time, because I just didn't want the pressure and my marks would have suffered as a result.

27:06

That's what I said when it comes to HyFlex.  HyFlex gives 100% flexibility to the students but you do not know if they know what that flexibility means. Because they do not know that course they do not need, you know the learning outcomes, and doesn't give enough flexibility to the teacher to say, well, for this class, I will I can suggest but actually you cannot impose in the high place modality that this class is it has to be actually in school because it's very important. And as he said, properly, they will and then a lot of students I've seen they were reluctant, I had students who were afraid to drive to the campus because they had been, you know, a very young drivers when COVID hit and then even though they had the car, they were not feeling confident to drive after you've been one year you just got your license and you'll be in one year and a half at home and then to calm and to come on time and all that stress added up. So that's another challenge.

 

Pat Perdue  28:09

It's so interesting. And it speaks to how important it is, I think for the prof to be sensitive to the reasons why a student might prefer in person or might prefer online for example, Raghad, what you alluded to earlier around people being bullied.

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  28:26

Yeah, that's that's always this answer one of the answers and also regarding the the HyFlex. I found that there is more stress on the professor's especially for the exams. For example, when I started when we do announcement, the Blackboard we need always to make sure the student they understand was the HyFlex. And they can come to the school they can join online. It's something new for them also it was and for the test, we need to know how many students will attend. We cannot ask, "Will you come in person, or you'll do it online?"  So we assume everybody comes in person. And then we copy the hard copy for the test. If I have like 25 students or 30 students, I have to copy these numbers. This is wasting of paper and we think of time and that's what happens there. Remember, maturity is only one student came in person and the final exam all they did it online and that's takes us to the academic integrity policy and the obligation The concern I wish in the future maybe the college maybe they make the attending in person as mandatory for the height legs, maybe I don't know for the exam, you mean Yeah. But again, there is argument about if a student outside Canada, they so he or she they maybe they need to provide like a proof or something. It makes more complex we don't want To make the things more complex, we have enough challenges in our life. I'm just giving example about them, the more stress on us to manage in every announcement, we do it to split between. So if you attended the campus, this is the time this is the room or whatever, that's the process. If you do it online, that's the process does the link. So that's what I mean. As far as, as the online, I went to the HyFlex training and, and as I mentioned, the focus was solely on how you deliver the content on the HyFlex mode. But we did have no training on the evaluation. And that even for me, it's a concern, because now I do have students who emailed me and they said they want to come in class A, they had online test, and they were not very happy because the typing skills were not there, especially when you have to write in formulas, or you have to do calculation. It's one thing when you write directly, and then other students struggle because they wrote everything on paper. And then they have to type in the things which you did not know initially, or the know how much time you take you. Actually I made my midterm exam right now like that, I just assume I'm a student. So I retook the test. And I wrote on and I use even computer the calculator with steps because I know some of them, they are not very familiar with the, with the the calculator, when you have the students in class, you were behind them, and you teach them how to use a calculator. Some of them they, I, they, I've seen that they take three or four steps on a formula where you can do it in one step. So I tried to do that. And I realized, well, that makes them a lot of time. While they offer my students now it will be interesting to see how it goes. I said, Well, I would want you to come in class. And we you can take the the exam, either on paper or on your laptop, so whichever is convenient for you. But I will do a fair ground. And we said about academic integrity, for all of you to be in class will not be fair for somebody who's coming in class and writing exam compared to somebody who was at home because we do not have anything in place to monitor the students taking the exams at all.

 

Pat Perdue  32:22

Interesting, interesting point.

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  32:24

There is another thing also about the student engagement. Because if we do formative assessment during the class, let's say we're using Mentimeter, with like questions, and the students in the class, they can use it. And then eye contact with eyes, I remember Teaching Learning office, if we if there is a way that we can give the same formative assessment to the students who are online. So they told me there is a link, we can copy the link of the Mentimeter we created so they can do this formative or review questions by themselves. There's something new I learned. So you see that more work. It's something we do with double. Yes, it's the HyFlex, yes.

 

Pat Perdue  33:05

And since it's so new, our experience of it and our students experience of it is also evolving. As you think of what you're doing in your HyFlex classes in the coming semester, are you thinking of things that you want to try or things that you want to do a little bit differently compared to either how you're doing it now or how you've done it in the past, and maybe Tatiana, I'll start with you?

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  33:32

Well, one thing I would want to do not as a teacher, as a program co-ordinator, I would want to give more information at the program orientation, about the delivery modes, because I think students now in class and online, they do not know much about hybrid or HyFlex. So I think that will be very important for them to know and to give them examples and tell them actually what that means. So when they make a decision to be a better decision, and also to talk with my chair and just see when we have two or three sections because it's it's experimental. At this stage, it's so much still to learn, and maybe to offer different delivery modes for the same section. And then compare and maybe to have a little bit more events where we can share we gather some information as we did now with regard and you have to have everybody together and share experiences on how we teach and also share experience from students to ask to do a bit more surveys and and ask them a little bit more about the challenges at the end of the semester. So that's that's one thing what I want to do to get a bit more feedback from the students. My my think what what I take away from this semester is that definitely for fall when I'm going to teach Physics I will definitely offer one of the sections to be a HyFlex and to be on class. So I'm curious how that will work. And then for the winter with the contact lens, when I teach those courses, I will go HyFlex and hybrid, as just make up my mind to have, you know, to make sure I explore everything.

 

Pat Perdue  35:14

And to have those....

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  35:18

I'm encouraging I actually I took my first HyFlex in September, and we had two full time teachers and encouraged my my other full time teacher, I said, Well, I wanted I went for us, I see what it is. I support you, I help you. So she's, she's teaching three classes this semester. And slowly, slowly, we want to bring more teachers on board, I think it's important as we want to expand that, and especially for all professionals or patients, we are very good at providing a sufficient workforce in the GTA. But then when it comes to remote areas in Ontario, they always are in need for a position and it's very hard for them to travel. So we became as a program full time and part time a little bit more flexible in that regard. Because we still have courses where you have to be on campus, but some of them they are cluster to be offered on weekends. So I think this HyFlex mode, it's still a good way to go. And and will be here to stay I will say

 

Pat Perdue  36:26

And Raghad, how about you? What things are you looking forward to and perhaps some changes that you might implement for delivery?

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  36:34

Actually, I think we cover most of them and Tatiana mention them. Like I think now they fix it to have two monitors, I think in the room, that was a challenge. Because using zoom and the chart area, which is fixed and the whiteboards in the classroom in the campus, it was not clear if we write anything in the whiteboard. So the online they cannot catch it. However, we still use the digital pen, digital pad and shows in the screen and the online guys. They can watch the screen. And I think yeah, educate students, it's good point, you mentioned it, about talking about the HyFlex in the orientation. What I did remember last semester I accepted was the HyFlex for my student. And then I put the links from the college where they explain and shows in details, what's the meaning. So what I noticed about the type of the mod for the teaching, I put all these links, and it was very useful for them. And creative video like I will come and video for my students, and how to use the course to navigate through the Blackboard for anything. So this would be very helpful. It's kind of orientation,

 

Pat Perdue  37:51

Flex sounds like an interesting, fascinating, exciting addition to our modalities that we're teaching with. So thank you very much. Thank you regard. And thank you, Tatiana, for spending time. It's been a great conversation. So thank you.

 

Professor Tatiana Mighiu  38:07

Thank you for having us.

 

Professor Raghad Kamel  38:10

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

 

Pat Perdue  38:13

And that was my conversation with professors Raghad Kamel and Tatiana Mighiu. And I have to say, one of the reasons I love doing these podcasts is that I get to meet so many interesting and amazing seconds. And these two professors were simply amazing, incredible energy, super nice, great senses of humor. I'm so grateful that Professor Raghad Kamel and Professor Tatiana Mighiu found time in their busy schedules to hang out with us on the podcast. So what do you think about the changing landscape of education at Seneca? Personally, I think it's pretty cool. And yeah, there's a lot to figure out. But you know what? We'll get there. And as always, I'm grateful to you for listening to this episode of the Seneca proud Podcast. I'm still Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca!