#SenecaProud

Pat Perdue  00:01

Hey, I'm Pat Perdue, and I'd like to welcome you to Season Two of the Seneca Proud podcast. This is a co-production between my company Ycastr and Seneca College in Toronto. Seneca College is a really great school. And what we uncovered in season one of Seneca Proud is that there's a Seneca spirit. And that comes from the really great people that Seneca attracts. This season we'll be featuring some of those students, staff as well as faculty to not only learn what they do here, but also a little bit about who they are. So, join me on this journey of discovery, as we meet some of the people who make Seneca College, such a special place to teach, work and study. 

Welcome to Seneca Proud, Season Two, where I get to introduce you to some of Seneca College's amazing family of staff, faculty and students. So, if you haven't already, subscribe, and download and let's go meet some of the super inspiring folks here at Seneca. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm glad you're here today. 

And welcome to the first episode of Season Two of the Seneca Proud podcast. I'm Pat Perdue, and I'm really, really excited that you're here today. Our guest is none other than Kevin Frankish. Kevin teaches journalism here at Seneca College. And you might know him as the longtime host of breakfast television on City TV here in Toronto, which he co-hosted for 27 years. Pretty amazing. Our conversation was wide ranging and really fun. I'm so honored to be able to share it with you today. Kevin joined me in the studios at Seneca at York. Here's my conversation with Journalism Professor, Mr. Kevin Frankish. 

I'm joined in studio by Kevin Frankish. Professor Kevin Frankish. And we're going to get into that. If you've spent any time at all in Toronto over the past 27 years or so. You'll know who Kevin Frankish is, arguably one of Canada's most successful television hosts. Kevin was the co-host of Breakfast Television from 1991 to 2018. And before that, he worked for nine years at CKVR TV in Barrie, Ontario. So basically, Kevin, you started like when you were six years old? And in 2018, Kevin announced he was leaving Breakfast Television in Toronto, effective June 1. And while Kevin remains involved with Citytv Toronto for documentaries, and special projects, for the purpose of our conversation today Kevin is a professor here at Seneca College at York University for Journalism.

 

Kevin Frankish  02:45

And you know, I hate that term. I'm not, I mean, that's what the job title is Professor. But I haven't earned the title to be called it. 

 

Pat Perdue  02:54

What about the Professor on Gilligan's Island?

 

Kevin Frankish  02:56

Well, no, I think he earned the title, to be called “Professor”, I guess because his character really was a professor. 

 

Pat Perdue  03:06

As you can see listeners to the podcast, we're going to talk about everything today, including Gilligan's Island. And Kevin also runs Kevin Frankish Media, a media content creation company, and has a YouTube channel @Kevin Frankish. If you Google that, or if you search that on YouTube, and just throw in the name, Kevin Frankish, you're going to find him. So, Kevin, welcome to the podcast today. I want to level set our conversation. This is actually the second time that we've been having this very conversation because the last time I made a classic podcast error. And I've told the story like 1000 times to folks. And I want to share it with you. At the end of it, you were kind of curious about the gear and you're like, “So I see your microphone is connected to that part of the recording device. Where's my microphone connected to?” And I was like, “Yeah!” So anyway, so Kevin, thank you so much for joining us today and tell us about the Journalism program. You have classes right now?

 

Kevin Frankish  04:07

I just got out of class. Yeah. 

 

Pat Perdue  04:09

How's it going? 

 

Kevin Frankish  04:11

Absolutely fantastic. I love it. I just absolutely love it. You know, it's getting back to the basics. For a journalist it keeps reminding you why you're a journalist. It's reminding you why you got into it, and how much you love it.

 

Pat Perdue  04:22

So why did you get into it? Why do you love it?

 

Kevin Frankish  04:25

Because it's something different every day. It's just I love telling stories. And that's the first thing a journalist is a storyteller. And I love telling stories. And I could not work in an office or at a factory doing the same thing day after day after day. You never know what to expect when you commit.

 

Pat Perdue  04:42

You know, you've been in the business a long time. You have a huge amount of real-world experience to share. How do you combine or marry your real-world knowledge with the lessons and the textbook stuff and the academia? How does that go? Is it a lot of level checking and say, well, you know, in reality this is how it goes.

 

Kevin Frankish  05:01

It is because there are so many questions. There is so much to wonder about what you, you know, what goes into what you see in the TV news or what you read in the paper. So yeah, you have to get back to the basics, as I said before.

 

Pat Perdue  05:18

And these days seem to me to be so newsy. You know what I mean, with what's going on south of the border? We just had a Federal election here. How does all of that play into your day-to-day conversations with your students?

 

Kevin Frankish  05:32

We used to know what news was, when we got something from a newspaper or from a TV station, from a radio broadcast. You know, we could be pretty safe to say that what we were getting were the facts. That was what reality was. Today, it's not so simple. In an effort to get ratings, even the top news producers these days, I mean, let's talk about CNN. They're not a news network anymore.

 

Pat Perdue  06:03

Because it’s so much opinion. 

 

Kevin Frankish  06:05

It is so much opinion, and they ignore what else is happening in the world.  And it is more comfortable for people to watch CNN, as long as people agree with their opinions, but if not, you know, that's it. So, CNN did try to temper it in the beginning, and you got more world news. But they realized their ratings were going down. So, they do nothing, nothing with Trump right now.

 

Pat Perdue  06:30

How does that affect your conversations with your students in the classroom? Who are, you know, they may be under the impression that that's actually news?

 

Kevin Frankish  06:37

Exactly. And that, again, anything they read, you could look up anything, you could look at Breitbart News and say, “Oh, I'm getting my news.” You could read Raw Story and say, “Oh, good, I'm getting my news.” Well, no, you're not. And I'm really, really disappointed. I can understand the little niche websites and news sites. You know, I mentioned Breitbart, they make no qualms. And that's who we are. However, some people don't hear that. They think, “Oh, I'm getting my news.” More and more, we're getting our news tailored to our beliefs and our thoughts and our ideologies. So that is the way news is being tailored for us; the way it is being curated. Oh, you only want to hear right wing opinion, or you only want to hear left wing opinion. Here you go.

 

Pat Perdue  07:23

So how do you bring into your classroom, the plurality of opinions?

 

Kevin Frankish  07:27

It's tough, because there's a lot of times, I will get stories handed in and I will say to them, there's no balance here. Yeah, but then it's kind of obvious that this person is right, this person is wrong. That's not your job. You know, your job is to present the facts. And hopefully trust people will pick right from wrong. But we've gone down a rabbit hole that I don't think we're ever going to get out of. I don't know who to trust anymore. I really, really don't know who to trust anymore when it comes to journalism.

 

Pat Perdue  07:55

Which brings us to the notion of media literacy. And do you find that in your journalism program, there is a component of fundamental media literacy as in checking your source.

 

Kevin Frankish  08:06

That's what we as instructors try to do. Media literacy is even worse today than it was years ago, because at least years ago, you had to watch TV, you had to listen to the radio, you had to read a newspaper, get a news magazine, that's how you got your information. Now, we are inundated with information so that the students coming in, sometimes get their news entirely from social media. And not even from reliable sources. They just see something on social media and it becomes gospel. So, we have to hammer that out of them. And really show them, social media has a place. And it's great for conversation. And if you are going to follow reputable sources such as, say, the Toronto Star or Globe and Mail, and even some people complain about them, they may be left of center, they may be right of center, but at least they're close enough that I feel as long as I look at it properly, I'm getting both sides. Don't confuse the Editorial age as well, from the News page. Try and differentiate the two. Editorial pages are important. But when you see their news coverage, you see, hopefully, that unbiasness that we need from our journalists. 

 

Pat Perdue  09:25

Sure. And you're talking about different media. People getting their news from social media, how does that impact the curriculum of your Journalism program knowing that social media is a component of news delivery today?

 

Kevin Frankish  09:38

Well, we have to teach that as well. If you are going to be working for a media organization, you have to know how to put news out on Twitter, on Facebook, etc. in an effective way. I'm hoping we're teaching them the right way. My worry is always that some of our students are going to be hired by people who are less than reputable as far as remaining unbiased. So that's not a journalist. That's someone with an opinion. And I do worry about where some of my lessons are going to end.

 

Pat Perdue  10:10

Okay. Well, hopefully you're planting seeds of, what's the word, on journalistic integrity? Yeah, that will inform a decision down the road. 

 

Kevin Frankish  10:20

Yeah, we have. We've become a society that doesn't want to hear the opposing view anymore. We tailor our news, as I mentioned before, and we have it curated for us so that everything you read, people are surprised, everything I read seems to agree with me anyway. No, no, no, no, that's your algorithm, that has been chosen for you by the algorithm gods. So, they find ,”Oh, you seem to be very much a conservative. Well, you know what, we're going to really lean everything towards conservatism for you.”  And we get into these fights with each other thinking that we're completely right all the time. And as soon as we hear an opposing view, even if it's something that we agree on, you know, we completely tune it out. 

 

Pat Perdue  11:00

Do you find now not to be too theoretical, but I find this so interesting. Do you find now that there's almost two worlds of journalism; one is spoon feeding the opinions that people already have pre formed, and the other might be providing this balanced approach to reporting to allow people to come to their own conclusions?

 

Kevin Frankish  11:21

And there's a third, big businesses have gotten in on this as well. And corporations, have found that putting up their own news by bypassing press releases and bypassing mainstream media, they're able to get a message out there. And it may not always be the right message.

 

Pat Perdue  11:36

Sure. And of course, it's going to have a bias. Within your background and your extensive background, what do you draw from? You've been on camera for a lot of years, your entire career? Is that correct? 

 

Kevin Frankish  11:47

Pretty well. Yeah. Yeah.

 

Pat Perdue  11:48

What do you find that you draw from, to almost Kevin Frankishsise the program, which may be in a different way than somebody else might?

 

Kevin Frankish  11:59

I do try to listen to both sides. And I try and present both sides. People may disagree with that.  You know, after the election, I had put out a tweet, saying, it's a very sad thing, that we have a government elected that did not win a majority of the votes. The Conservatives won more votes than the Liberals did, but under our first pass the post system and under our parliamentary system, and our seat system, that doesn't equate to being the government in charge. And so, I said, we need to change this. Well, everyone automatically assumed, oh, you’ve just sour grapes, because you voted for Conservatives. Well, first of all, and I'll let you know, I did not vote Conservative. But I know what's fair. And if that large a population of this country is trying to send a message, the message is not getting heard, sadly.

 

Pat Perdue  13:00

Hopefully, there's a nuance in that message. Because there's another way to slice that particular pie, you know, the majority of the Canada voted left of center.

 

Kevin Frankish  13:09

Exactly. And there is that. And there's always going to be an argument for the first past of post system. But I find there are more arguments that I find more effective for a proportional representation. But when I put something out there, people automatically assume well, you must be a Conservative because of what happened. You lost last night. You're just sour grapes. No, I'm actually being open and honest. My guy one. But I'm still not thinking that it was the right thing to do. And as well, I am getting so sick and tired of how we label everyone a Conservative or a Liberal. Yes, I have voted Liberal, I’ve voted NDP, I’ve voted Conservative.  I go with what is happening at the time, what their platforms are what kind of leadership I can expect. This time around, there were some policies I agreed with the Conservative’s platform. However, I thought Andrew Shearer would have been a very poor leader. So that's one thing that really helped change my vote.

 

Pat Perdue  14:14

So, getting into the journalistic bias. It's amazing that you sent out this one tweet that was an opinion, but people because of their particular echo chamber through which they consume their media, they made all kinds of assumptions and painted you with a brush that may not have been appropriate. So how does a journalist combat that? Like, what are the tools or options available to them?

 

Kevin Frankish  14:41

You know, you have to carry on. You just have to face into the wind, right? It can be tough, and there's always that danger of getting personal. And you got to try not to. If you disagree with someone the way we see discussion on social media is, “You’re an idiot.” I, as a journalist, I love discussion. I love it when people disagree with me, and we can do it respectfully. “Well, you know, Kevin, I think the first past the post system actually is a much better system because ABCD.” “Not sure.” “Oh, good lord, just sour grapes. Get over it.” I love discussion. And then I love after the discussion to say, “Alright, let's go get a beer.”

 

Pat Perdue  15:20

Yep. And or even have the discussion over a beer or whatever. 

 

Kevin Frankish  15:24

We see what's happening in the US. There have been, and in this hit me, yesterday, there have been two traumatic events that have changed the US now forever. One of them was 911. The next one is Trump. If Trump loses in 2020, if he is impeached, if he is arrested, no matter what happens in 2020, America will never ever recover. There’s this kind of knowing no going back there now. So divided. You know how much the world changed after 911. Well, now, after Trump, he has left divisions; people don't trust their government; they don't trust their government agencies. So that's what happens when facts are overshadowed by conspiracy theories and innuendos and when we stop respecting each other's opinions, even if they're opposing opinions,

 

Pat Perdue  16:21

Tying this into your class, tying this into the conversations that you have in the classroom, where, there may be blind spots that your students have, because they themselves may not know the bias that they're consuming when they're looking at social media. And do you find that your conversations with your students have to address first these blind spots? And once you realize you have a blind spot, then okay, now I can try to become a little less biased?

 

Kevin Frankish  16:47

Yes, they do. A lot of it comes out in their work. And you see the result afterwards. And that's when I think you have the more important conversations. It's a tough thing to teach when you're teaching one course. And you realize, wait a minute, I should be doing something on media literacy as well. I wish I had more time to do that.

 

Pat Perdue  17:06

One of the questions I often like to ask in these podcasts is, what's the surprise that your students experience in the course of their time with you and your course?  They might start your course, with one set of expectations and one set of perceptions. But by the end of that period, by the end of that three months, they're like, wow, I didn't see that coming?

 

Kevin Frankish  17:27

That's a good question. I've only been teaching for, you know, two semesters now. It's difficult to gauge. I think today, I don't know if I would see that as much as a surprised, as they're overwhelmed. There are the students today, and it's like this, not just with journalism, but with any other course. But I'll speak for my students, they feel overwhelmed by the workload, by a changing world that is different, even when you and I were back in college and university. So, what these students are facing, I mean, we could be ignorant and say, "Oh, come on, get over it”, you know. It was tough when I was a teen, when I was a student. Now we're in a different world. We're in a world that now lives on conspiracy theories. We're in a world of social media, we're in a world where people's self-worth is being questioned every single day. And we're also in a world where money is even tighter. And now we're faced with a reduction in the amount of student loans. And we're in a world where students who have loans may never ever pay them off. Happy education everyone! So, they're facing all these anxieties. It’s really tough, and we have to remember that the suicide rates have skyrocketed. in postsecondary education. Things were so bad at one building at the U of T last year, they actually had to put a suicide barrier in one of their stairwells where not one, not two, but three students took their own lives. This is an alarming statistic. And I see firsthand, these students, just they seem overwhelmed. In fact, I took part of my class today to try and teach them how to better deal with depression and anxiety and how to better deal with the workload. And one of the things I told them was, this is a quote and it's, you know, I'd love to say who it was attributed to. It's been attributed everyone from St. Cecil to Mozart, but it is the quickest way to get everything done, is to do one thing at a time. And unfortunately, we're multitaskers. We have ADD, and it's on your mind all the time, “I have 20 assignments due.” And I'm trying to really lay out to them, okay, you have 20 assignments due, you can only work on one. So put the 19 aside right now, work on this one, try and put your mind towards that, and prioritize. 

 

Pat Perdue  20:19

But it's so hard because when you're working on that one assignment, those 19 other assignments are knocking on your door saying, you got to do me, you got to do me, you got to do me. 

 

Kevin Frankish  20:28

Right. So I did an exercise today actually with them, where I gave everyone a pad of yellow stickies. And I said, okay, on each page, write down everything, or write down an assignment, write down a concern, write down a deadline, write down something you have to do. Take a page for each and these students took 20, 30 pages! “You know, I have this assignment do for this person.”  “I have to study for this quiz.” “I have to do my laundry.”  I have to do this; I have to do that. And then I said, alright, now put them all on the board. And so, they've spread them all out. I said, “Pick the number one thing that has to be done right now, that is either late or it's the very first thing you have to take care of.”  So, we did that. And I said, now keep going, and start prioritizing and then put them into one package. And so, the top sticky, that's what you need to be concerned about right now. Everything else is still there. But I need you to look at the top sticky. So, if it's starting an assignment, start the assignment, get it going. Now if you can't finish to that point, that's fine. You've now started it. Now put that sticky somewhere else in your priority.”

 

Pat Perdue  21:37

And just to jump in here, starting the assignment is so difficult because it might seem like you're climbing Mount Everest. 

 

Kevin Frankish  21:43

It does. And then you start brainstorming, and then you think, “Oh, I can't think of it or think of something later.” I said, don't do that. If you need to brainstorm, brainstorm. It's okay that you can't think of anything right now. But lety our juices flow, just go with that. And then when we were all done, I said, okay, I want you to write one more note, and that is, take time for myself. And I said, put it in there somewhere. Because that's as important as every other assignment. I need you to at least set aside 30 minutes every couple of days, where you're not watching TV, you're not surfing, that you just sit back, and you're just either enjoying a breeze, going down to the lake, whatever. And that's important as well. These students need, it's almost as though they need more help with dealing with anxiety and stress than they do with learning. 

 

Pat Perdue  22:32

To be well, it's a skill. It's a learned skill. How did that exercise go over today?

 

Kevin Frankish  22:35

Wonderfully, I think it went wonderfully. I hope it did it, but it's not something that couple of yellow sticky pads are going to change right away. It's a matter of me, always reinforcing that. Later on, is okay.  Hey everybody you know this assignment is due. Keep in mind when it's due. Prioritize it. When can you get it done? Try not to leave it till the very last minute because that's the bit that makes it even worse, but prioritize. 

 

Pat Perdue  23:03

That's amazing. Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to do them.

 

Kevin Frankish  23:07

Well, we can only do one thing at a time, right? 

 

Pat Perdue  23:10

Yeah, it's the truth. We can only do one thing at a time. And we're not really multitaskers. But we're, we're really bad task switchers.

 

Kevin Frankish  23:17

Yeah, and we're bad task starters. Because we look at something and we seem not only overwhelmed by the task at hand, but the 20 other tasks that still have to be done.

 

Pat Perdue  23:26

We know you from Breakfast Television, and we know you here from teaching your class. What's on the horizon for Kevin Frankish? 

 

Kevin Frankish  23:35

Well, it's funny you should ask, I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket and hoping to win $10 million. No, I have no other future plans. We'll see. I'll see how that goes. You know what, it's so funny, keep in mind, this was not a retirement okay, this was forced upon me. This was not a retirement. So, I still have to live.  

 

Pat Perdue  24:06

“This”, being the end of your time at Breakfast? 

 

Kevin Frankish  24:10

End of Breakfast Television, yeah. So, I still have to live and I still have to earn a living, and so I was very worried at first. But I am finding right now that I'm doing what is actually becoming our future economy and that is the gig economy. More and more people are not working for one company and they’re doing a contract here, a contract there. And, maybe doing a bit of this a bit of that. You know yourself. 

 

Pat Perdue  24:36

 

Kevin Frankish  24:38

 

Pat Perdue  24:43

I love it.

 

Kevin Frankish  24:44

Yeah. And I love it too. Years ago, we wanted security, right? I worked for a company, for Citytv and for a while before, CHUM which owns CKVR, for 36 years. Those days are gone. And I can't believe I lasted 36 years with one company.

 

Pat Perdue  25:06

That’s like Bruno Gerussi stuff!

 

Kevin Frankish  25:08

I know, right! Kids, Bruno Gerussi was an actor back in our day.

 

Pat Perdue  25:12

Well, the Beachcomber is one of the longest running TV shows in history.

 

Kevin Frankish  25:15

Funny story. I did a pilgrimage out to Molly's Reach. So again, kids are going, “What’s Molly's Reach?”  Molly's Reach was a restaurant in a show called The Beachcombers. And it was, you know, back in our day, there weren't many TV shows. And the Canadian ones weren't always that great. But Beachcombers was on Sunday night, and you just sort of had to watch it. It was a Canadian thing. I went to Molly's Reach, which is at Gibson's landing. And I saw the Persephone and I had lunch inside Molly's. It really exists. In fact, it's for sale. Molly's Reach is for sale, right now! Do you want to buy it Pat? You and me, come on! 

 

Pat Perdue  25:50

It’s a cultural icon!  Nice. Okay. 

 

Kevin Frankish  25:54

So sorry, I really...that was a left turn there.

 

Pat Perdue  25:57

A happy one. But I think this whole notion of the gig economy is Seneca’s benefit, because you get to find yourself here doing some classes for us. And I think that's a huge, huge bonus to your students in the program.

 

Kevin Frankish  26:10

Oh, and one of the courses, and I'll be back teaching it again next semester, is Job Interview Techniques, as well as Job Finding Techniques. And I really emphasize to the students and say, apply at the TV stations, apply at the radio stations and newspapers. But you know what? There's nothing wrong with starting your own podcast, with doing freelance work with working your own website, or going to different websites and getting together with other people and putting something together. People worry that the jobs are diminishing for those in Journalism and Broadcasting. No, there's never been more. I read for more. 

 

Pat Perdue  26:50

But to your point, the traditional job is not there or not there as prevalent a force as it has been. 

 

Kevin Frankish  26:57

As it has been and it's going to be your choice, whether or not you want to get a job in which your integrity remains intact.

 

Pat Perdue  27:03

Got it. So that's really tricky. And how much of your course is around identifying, what are your boundaries, where are your integrity boundaries, and knowing that, you know, you might be asked to cross the line and facing that in advance? So, knowing how you're going to be asked to cross the line, so how will you respond?  

 

Kevin Frankish  27:22

Within the syllabus, there really is nothing to that, because we have so much more to hit. It does definitely come out, though, from each of the individual instructors.  And we just have to keep hammering into them and keep reminding them as you know, as parents do with their kids, you know, trying to bring you up right, I have to release you unto the world. And I hope you do right by journalism.

 

Pat Perdue  27:41

If I'm a young person today, considering taking your course considering taking even journalism in general, what are some questions I can ask myself to determine whether or not the course or the program would be a good fit for me?

 

Kevin Frankish  27:56

You know, what I think? You have to look around about what interests you. Can I tell a story? Can I look more into that? Can I dig more into the facts? I mean, if I passed a car accident on the road, you know, do I wonder how did it start? How could it have been prevented? Is this a bad area for it? You know, ask a whole bunch of questions. If you love asking questions and finding out answers. I think that journalism is definitely for you.

 

Pat Perdue  28:28

We've just finished Reading Week or Study Week. 

 

Kevin Frankish  28:33

Yeah, you know, I didn't get the memo.

 

Pat Perdue  28:35

You didn't get the memo?

 

Kevin Frankish  28:36

I showed up last week. I came in. There were still a few students around, so it was enough that I wasn't completely, you know, notified at that point. But I came in and the Tim Hortons in our lobby was closed. It’s never closed and there’s always a lineup. I said, okay, okay. I don't know. And I went up into our main office area, and our receptionist is still there. And there were a few people still working. Okay. And it was about 15 minutes, half an hour, that it just started coming back to me. And I was thinking, when is Reading Week? And I looked it up and I said, it's Reading Week right now.

 

Pat Perdue  29:18

Did you go to your classroom? 

 

Kevin Frankish  29:21

Not as far as the classroom, but I was prepping for it. I was already doing so well. 

 

Pat Perdue  29:25

You were totally prepped for the following week, which is great. This is work that you did in advance. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for joining us today in the pod. I really appreciate your time and this “take two” so you're a super, super nice guy. You're just as nice in person as you came across on TV. It's true.

 

Kevin Frankish  29:44

Well, you know, and if we're going to talk about old shows like Beachcombers, kids, Google Take 30. There's an old CBC show Take 30. 

 

Pat Perdue  29:57

Thanks! Thanks again for joining us! Appreciate it. 

Oh, my goodness, that was so much fun! And what I found really interesting in that conversation is the idea that traditional journalism is changing, and how modern journalists don't have to wait for the big job opportunity. But they can go out there and say, make a podcast, super interesting times. And not only is Kevin really knowledgeable about journalism and storytelling, he's also a really nice guy, and clearly someone who cares about the well-being of his students. Thanks again to my guest, Kevin Frankish. And thank you for listening. This has been the Seneca Proud podcast I'm Pat Perdue. Stay proud Seneca!